jeremy Posted September 18, 2011 Report Posted September 18, 2011 G'daye gentleman, In October I am traveling to Japan for our annual Batto-do taikai, and my sensei over there, who is Ishikawa sensei, has arranged with the authorities to allow me and my colleagues to bring our nihonto there to use for the two weeks for training and competition. What he has done is arranged for some papers to be sent to me in Australia from a togishi, for me to fill out, as though I am bringing the sword to Japan for polishing purposes. What I wanted to know is, when I have these papers, and get off at Osaka airport, will they require me to take off the tsuka for nakago viewing and hold my sword for some time, or just view these papers from the togishi and let me through without too much hassles? Kind regards, Jeremy Quote
cabowen Posted September 18, 2011 Report Posted September 18, 2011 Yes, they will take the swords apart and inspect them. Usually they will make out some documents that you will then need to bring back for a licensing at a later date. Usually that date is after you are scheduled to leave. Then you need to return the license, photos, and more paperwork to the Bunkacho. Wait three more weeks for export documents....The whole process could easily take close to 2 months. Curious how you will get the sword in and out in two weeks.....Let us know how that works.... Quote
jeremy Posted September 18, 2011 Author Report Posted September 18, 2011 Hey Chris, The reason why our Senseis went through the painful procedure of attaining these "special" paperwork, was to avoid these hassles you mention. I was under the impression these papers were supposed to allow us to take our swords into Japan for the 2 weeks under the pretenses of restoration which is why our togishi had to help out to get this paperwork for us. Ive never done this before, only taken mogito to Japan, never a nihonto....Ill keep everyone posted here how it turns out... Kind regards, Jeremy Quote
cabowen Posted September 18, 2011 Report Posted September 18, 2011 I have never heard of "special paperwork"....doesn't mean there isn't some new or different wrinkle though. For your sake I hope it works out. As I said, please let us know....It would be nice to know if there is indeed some alternative import/export route available. Quote
Clive Sinclaire Posted September 18, 2011 Report Posted September 18, 2011 Hi Jeremy I am very surprised if what your sensei has arranged is able to circumvent the registraion process. I often send swords to Japan for restoration and they always go through the same registration process, there is no special dispensation for restoration that I am aware of. Also beware, that unless your sensei is familiar with transporting swords, he may have misunderstood. If I were you, I would send the swords to your sensei or a handling agent, maybe a polisher, a good couple of months before you arrive and allow him to register them at Torokusho shinsa. He would also need to arrange for export licenses etc. I have known of a British Iai-do team having all their swords confiscated at Kansai and having all sorts of trouble retrieving them. Unless your Japanese language skills are excellent and you are prepared for a long delay at customs, whilst they call in outside police for a temporary permit to be issued, I would not try to walk the swords through customs. Finally make sure that none of the swords you are taking are Showa-to as these are still illegal in Japan and you don't want that as an added complication. Good luck Clive Sinclaire Quote
Clive Sinclaire Posted September 18, 2011 Report Posted September 18, 2011 Jeremy Having written the above, it just occured to me that maybe your sensei wants you to send your swords to this polisher, who will be well versed in the torokusho-shinsa or registration process. If this is the case and you are going in October, it is quite urgent that you dispatch the sword. I think the Toyo area Torokusho-shinsa is held on the first Tuesday of each month, is that not so Chris?. Just a thought. Regards (again) Clive Sinclaire Quote
cabowen Posted September 18, 2011 Report Posted September 18, 2011 JeremyHaving written the above, it just occured to me that maybe your sensei wants you to send your swords to this polisher, who will be well versed in the torokusho-shinsa or registration process. If this is the case and you are going in October, it is quite urgent that you dispatch the sword. I think the Toyo area Torokusho-shinsa is held on the first Tuesday of each month, is that not so Chris?. Just a thought. Regards (again) Clive Sinclaire To be honest I don't remember as it has been so long since I put a sword through in Tokyo outside of the post office... Quote
Guido Posted September 18, 2011 Report Posted September 18, 2011 There's a legal way to do it (assuming it's a Nihontô and not a non-Japanese sword): when personally bringing a sword into Japan, it has to be declared at customs. Customs escorts the importer to the port police, which then will issue a temporary import permit (Hikiwatashisho 引渡書). The importer has to contact the Prefectural Education Board for proper licensing; if he lives in Japan it's that of his prefecture, otherwise the one at the prefecture of the polisher. After the Taikai, the polisher has the sword licensed, de-licensed, and sends it back. One can try to re-export it without prior licensing by handing in the Hikiwatashisho upon departure, but should be prepared to answer a lot of questions by the suspicious port police ... Quote
cabowen Posted September 19, 2011 Report Posted September 19, 2011 How is that any different? I have brought swords into Japan through the airport, and as long as it is three or less, the police inspect it, issue a temporary permit that you must then take to the prefectural licensing shinsa, then when you leave, you have to go through the same export procedure...If you mail the sword to Japan, it goes through shinsa at the post office on the appointed day. It still has to be exported through the same procedure. There is no "special import-export" that I am aware of that can be accomplished in some sort of expedient fashion.... If you show up at the airport without the proper export permit, you will not be permitted to leave with the sword. Make sure you tell your airline when you book your tickets that you will be carrying a Japanese sword in your luggage. They may have special packing requirements and they will notify the customs people so that they are there quickly when you check in at the airport and see to it that you make your flight, provided of course you have all the proper documents and answer all their questions properly. Quote
jeremy Posted September 19, 2011 Author Report Posted September 19, 2011 Gdaye gentlemen, Today I received this special paperwork in the mail. It is a letter in Japanese and English for me to present to the customs officials it reads like this: "To Whom it may concern, Reason for import of Japanese sword This is to confirm that Mr Jeremy Hagop is carrying his Japanese sword into Japan for polishing by a polish master during his stay in Japan. His purpose of visit is to attend a special training and a Taikai event of Nakamura-ryu Battodo being held by Internation Battodo Federation on 23 Oct 2011. POlish master : Isamu Suzuki Suzuki Art swords 6-41 Midori Kani-Shi Gifu Pref. TEL: 090-1271-0110 We hereby affirm the above statement to be true and correct. For any enquiry, please contact to either Mr Nomura or Mr Shinbori. (Issuer of this letter) Name: International Batto-do federation President Tomoko Nakamura (address: 1-25-15 kami-sueyoshi tsurumi-ku Yokohama-shi Kanagawa - ken Personnel in charge: Tsutomu Ishikawa Tel: 080-3078-0039 e-mail: iwaharu-n@dolphin.ocn.ne.jp " Ive been told to take this letter with me along with my shinsakuto and present it at the airport, and should be allowed to take it in and out without too much hassles. Ill keep you all posted in October anyway. Kind regards, Jeremy Hagop Quote
cabowen Posted September 19, 2011 Report Posted September 19, 2011 Ive been told to take this letter with me along with my shinsakuto and present it at the airport, and should be allowed to take it in and out without too much hassles. Ill keep you all posted in October anyway. Kind regards, Jeremy Hagop I think you are in for a lot of trouble-I hope it is as easy as you have been led to believe....Like I said, let us know how that works out..... Quote
sencho Posted September 19, 2011 Report Posted September 19, 2011 Make sure you tell your airline when you book your tickets that you will be carrying a Japanese sword in your luggage. Just flew from Tokes to London and noticed on check in that ANA specifically considered "Swords" a prohibited item to carry in checked luggage, along with (amongst other things) explosives, poisonous substances, corrosives and radioactive materials. cheers! Quote
falconj Posted September 19, 2011 Report Posted September 19, 2011 Gidday Jeremy, I have taken quite a few swords into Japan, some for polish, some for appraisal , I took oshigata of the swords that I took each time, and presented the copies of these to Australian Customs prior to leaving, they stamped the photocopy paper as leaving Australia and I informed them of my return date, which was also noted, I also took a Japanese language introduction letter to Japan Customs/Police at Narita with me which explained to them that I had 4 swords within my baggage, ( and the oshigata stamped by Australian Customs ) and that I would be presenting them for appraisal and would be departing from Japan home on the flight and departure date. ( approx 10 days ) I presented this to the officers at Narita and after waiting a few minutes was issued a temporary sword 'carrying' permit for my stay and travel around Tokyo, on my departure I informed the airline what was going on, they rang the Customs/Police they came to the departure area, inspected my bag, stamped and issued the paperwork and I returned to Australia. regards John Falconer Quote
cabowen Posted September 19, 2011 Report Posted September 19, 2011 Sounds like you got lucky... I have made inquires with the staff at the Bunkacho and they assured me there is no "temporary" permit, that all swords need to be registered and then the registration returned prior to leaving. Maybe another case of Japanese style bureaucratic "case by case".... Again, hope it works out for the OP and that he lets us know how things go...I truly hope it is possible.... Quote
Guido Posted September 19, 2011 Report Posted September 19, 2011 @ Nigel: those prohibited item information boards are up for ages in Narita; it's kind of a blanket statement, they just didn't bother to go into the details of Nihontô as an exception. @ John: that's kind of what I described above, I've heard about it from time to time from martial arts practitioners who wanted to bring their swords temporarily into Japan, but wasn't sure if it actually works. However, I'm surprised that you were allowed to bring *four* swords, since *three* is usually the limit for Hikiwatashisho. Quote
falconj Posted September 20, 2011 Report Posted September 20, 2011 Aah Guido, it is just as well you are watching, I must apologize for misleading the list, it was only 3 blades not 4, maybe I had to fast a typing finger syndrome , Jeremy, I have attached the Australian Customs information here as it is also important on the return to Australia with swords however I had the letter for permit typed out in Japanese and addressed to the Tokyo Customs Office Narita Airport Police Office Chiba Prefecture re: Temporary Registration for Japanese Swords I declared my name and Australian address and explained I had bought these swords in unaccompanied baggage to Japan for appraisal and included that information in the letter of the appraising people and their contact address and phone numbers. I asked for the temporary permit ( see attached ) for my stay in Japan for a week ( dates included ) and my return flight details to get them back out of Japan. I also included sword type ( ie tanto ) signed or unsigned and sword length. I also signed and dated the letter's with contact phone number's while in Japan and back in Australia have attached the permit for the 2000 year trip as all other later paperwork is at another location, but the procedure was the same later on, I dunno whether I just got lucky! or it was just how we planned it, but that was the instruction on, 'how to do it' from my Japanese contacts all worked well regards John Quote
Guido Posted September 20, 2011 Report Posted September 20, 2011 ... in unaccompanied baggage to Japan ...Sorry if I start nitpicking again but you meant "checked in baggage", right? I once brought a sword into Japan with my unaccompanied baggage, and could easily fill two pages with the story about the bureaucratic nightmare that followed ... Btw, the first scan shows the Hikiwatashisho 引渡書 I talked about above. Quote
falconj Posted September 20, 2011 Report Posted September 20, 2011 Thank you Guido for correcting me, you are right again ( I may get you to proof read all my messages :lol: ) arrrr the shame! but John Quote
cabowen Posted September 20, 2011 Report Posted September 20, 2011 Are you aware of any time limit as far as how long you can have the sword in Japan? Submitting for shinsa can take a looong time for Juyo shinsa..... Quote
falconj Posted September 20, 2011 Report Posted September 20, 2011 No, I don't know the time limit to your question, just applied for the week got an appraisal date available , booked it and worked around that, did not have any juyo swords to submit John ( a few years later, I still haven't, but still wishing! ) Quote
jeremy Posted November 4, 2011 Author Report Posted November 4, 2011 As promised, Im going to update you guys on how we got our swords through Kansei airport for our taikai. We arrived at Osaka airport (4 of us), 3 shinken and 4 mogito in total. We all got pulled aside by customs officials and put into a waiting room. Our iaido instructor was with us, who speaks enough Japanese to get around, debated with the officials about why we needed our swords, and we showed our letters from our sensei. They called Osaka police, after an hours wait, two police officers turned up and took photos of our sword, recorded the lengths, didnt remove the tsuka to check for mei, and we were all given a similar temporary license which is depicted in the photo in the post above. The whole procedure took about 4 hours. When it came time to leave from Kansei airport, we had to show the lady at the checkout our temporary license in order to be allowed to take the swords into checked luggage. Not sure if I wanna go through that ordeal again! i think I might just buy a sword in Japan and leave it with my sensei and use it when I go there! Kind regards, Jeremy Hagop Quote
cabowen Posted November 4, 2011 Report Posted November 4, 2011 Glad to hear it worked out...Still sounds a little dicey to me..... Quote
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