Opinions on this sword.

[historian2]

Have a chance to buy this sword, would like to get some opinions on it.

Looks like it has been cut down, has a nice hada ayasugi i think. about 18 inchs long.

Erich

[historian2]

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[Jacques]

Hi,

 

Shinto blade, mei reads Mishina Ta 三品 但.....(maybe Mishina Tajima no kami Munetsugu 三品 但馬守 藤原宗次 or Mishina Tajima no Kami Kanemitsu 三品 但馬守 藤原兼光)

[nagamaki - Franco]

Hello,

 

has a nice hada ayasugi i think

Shinto blade

 

'Problems in paradise'' date=' Shinto blade, cannot = ayasugi hada. According to " [u']Japanese Master Swordsmiths; The Gassan Tradition[/u] pg. 16, Ayasugi hada was extinct from koto times until Gassan Sadayoshi (1845) redeveloped ayasugi hada in Shinshinto times. Which is one reason Gassan Sadayoshi is highly celebrated.

[sanjuro]

So what are we saying then? it isnt ayasugi (because it certainly looks like it). Or it isnt shinto?

 

If it isnt shinto, then we've missed something in the mei. No?

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

Franco,

 

Ayasugi hada is not a Gassan's exclusiveness, you can find a kind of ayasugi in the Shitahara school.

[Brian]

Jacques,

Yes, but Franco wasn't saying the book claimed it was extinct in their school.....the book clearly says: Ayasugi hada was extinct from koto times until Gassan Sadayoshi (1845) redeveloped ayasugi hada in Shinshinto times

So therefore the book states it was extinct in any school. I have my doubts about this though, am sure it was used occasionally by others during that time.

 

Brian

[historian2]

What school was Mishina Tajima No kami Munetsugu from? I found one of his swords on a website

that has ayasugi hada dates 1759.

Erich

[nagamaki - Franco]

Hello Gents,

 

Sole intention was to raise awareness, not to pass judgment. Yes, other schools used ayasugi hada. However, the statement in the Gassan book seems to be a blanket statement, "extinct", that really doesn't leave room for exceptions, does it. (ughh, Brian beat to the punch, but that's ok, some things are worth repeating)

 

If nothing else, this should be a reminder that kantei begins with the sword and not at the nakago.

[leo]

Hello, Erich,

this is a Mishina-school smith:

 

Munetsugu, 1748, Settsu, Mishina Tajima (no) Kami Fujiwara Munetsugu 三品 但馬守 藤原宗次. Student of Mishina Kanemichi. His hada was mainly Ayasugi.

 

Very easy information about Mishina school here:

 

http://www.nihontocraft.com/Mishina.html

 

Regards, Martin

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

So therefore the book states it was extinct in any school. I have my doubts about this though, am sure it was used occasionally by others during that time.

 

 

Yes in the Shitahara which was active during all shinto times school and probably on others individual works like Munetsugu.

 

http://www.tokka.biz/sword/munetsugu.html

 

 

 

Mishina Tajima No kami Munetsugu was in the Mishina school Osaka branch.

[nagamaki - Franco]

Hello,

 

According to Yamanaka, ayasugi hada was found on swords made in Koto and Shinshinto times in the following provinces and schools.

Koto Period:

Satsuma Province - Naminohira smiths

Dewa Province - Gassan smiths

Yamato Province - late Shikkake smiths

Echigo Province - Momokawa smiths

 

Shinshinto Period:

Settsu Province - Gassan

[historian2]

Thanks for the information, Amazing that the ayasugi hada was so uncommon during the

shinto period being that it is one of the nicest looking of the different types of hada.

Erich

[sanjuro]

Perhaps this is just me, but if one considers the position of the two lower mekugi ana, and given that one of them at least would be the original one, then the mei is rather awkwardly placed. My thought here is that mekugi ana arent likely to be forged, but mei most certainly are.

Perhaps we are looking at a suriage blade that is also a later gimei. Or a blade that has been cut down more than once and a gimei added at some point in that multiple process. If the blade is Koto then the nakago appears a little fresh. The mei is also a little too well preserved for a koto mei. The name is not a koto smith so one supposes that if the blade is judged to be koto then it is also by default, gimei.

 

I may be way off the track here of course. Confusion abounds in my family. :?