Den Norishige with possible umegane?

[Lewis B]

A den Norishige was just (re) listed on Samurai Nippon and something caught my eye. Does this look like umegane? Seems to track a pre-existing kitae-ware and not mentioned by the seller. Caveat emptor.

This sword I think was listed a year or 2 ago and has reappeared.

 

 

https://www.samurai-nippon.net/SHOP/V-2201.html

[YourBabyBjornBorg]

Edited, they got the Norishige and Tokuju Niji-Kunitoshi's picture mixed up orz

[Lewis B]

14 minutes ago, YourBabyBjornBorg said:

Edited, they got the Norishige and Tokuju Niji-Kunitoshi's picture mixed up orz

Not sure what you mean by orz. The photos, description and zufu are for the Den Norishige.

 

OK I see what you mean. The 45 degree photos of the Den Norishige were also added to the Kunitoshi listing by mistake. 

[Bugyotsuji]

Re 'orz', this ASCII emoticon represents a bowing figure apparently, to express disappointment, frustration or apology. 

[Lewis B]

Something else I'm curious about. Why the Den Norishige attribution in this case?

 

An AI-assisted translation of the setsumei includes phrases like "firmly attributed to Norishige", "workmanship ..... is textbook Norishige", "definitive benchmark specimen encapsulating the master's prestigious traditions" etc.

 

 

[Markus]

2 hours ago, Lewis B said:

Something else I'm curious about. Why the Den Norishige attribution in this case?

 

An AI-assisted translation of the setsumei includes phrases like "firmly attributed to Norishige", "workmanship ..... is textbook Norishige", "definitive benchmark specimen encapsulating the master's prestigious traditions" etc.

 

 

Hm, I only see one descriptive line in the Setsumei, the last one, stating "we are in agreement that the blade displays the characteristics traditionally associated (with this smith)."

 

[Lewis B]

19 minutes ago, Markus said:

Hm, I only see one descriptive line in the Setsumei, the last one, stating "we are in agreement that the blade displays the characteristics traditionally associated (with this smith)."

 

Likely exposing the deficiencies of current AI models when it comes to translating nuance in Japanese setsumei commentary. Still a long way to go.

[Jacques]

[nulldevice]

49 minutes ago, Jacques said:

?

[Brano]

Yes - it's almost certainly a umegane
Remember, the blade passed through Juyo over 50 years ago
Anything could have happened in that long of a time

[MassiveMoonHeh]

https://web.archive.org/web/20260123192307/https://eirakudo.shop/928608

 

The Umegane does appear in the photos  in it's last listing at eirakudo - but is not as definite.

 

Good pickup @Lewis B.

 

Eirakudo Listing

 

Samurai Nippon Listing.

[MassiveMoonHeh]

FYI, Eirakuda was selling it for  ¥17,000,000.

 

Would be interested to see what the new price is.

 

As an aside I do believe the Habaki is probably one of my favourite Habaki - ever - a lot of love and care put into that piece.

 

And aside from the Umegane it is a very beautiful blade. Norishige going down, down to Matsukawa town.

[nulldevice]

Not so cool is the fact that in the old Eirakudo listing, the umegane looks to have been "touched up" to be near invisible. 

 

Looks like Brett beat me to it. I'd trust the Samurai Nippon photos to be more akin to real life than Eirakudo in this case. 

 

[Rivkin]

To be even more cynical I see nothing here worthy of praise. Considering Norishige is not a particularly rare attribution.

[nulldevice]

5 minutes ago, Rivkin said:

To be even more cynical I see nothing here worthy of praise. Considering Norishige is not a particularly rare attribution.

The Juyo Setsumei isn't overly praiseworthy IMO. They just agree with a handed down attribution 

 

Quote

Explanation:

This is an ō-suriage mumei katana, traditionally attributed as Etchū Norishige. Norishige is commonly counted as one of the Ten Disciples (Jittetsu) of Sōshū Masamune, but it is actually more appropriate to view him as a student of Shintōgo Kunimitsu and a fellow student with Masamune.

The basic style features standing itame with much chikei, notare-style with deep nioi and ko-nie appearing well, and frequent kinsuji. While signed tantō are relatively numerous, tachi are mostly ōsuriage. This katana is one whose traditional attribution can be accepted.

 

[Rivkin]

1 hour ago, nulldevice said:

The Juyo Setsumei isn't overly praiseworthy IMO. They just agree with a handed down attribution 

Thank you, they make it sound almost as Yukimitsu.

"deep nioi". That makes one scratch his head.

Edited July 28 by Rivkin

[MassiveMoonHeh]

5 hours ago, nulldevice said:

The Juyo Setsumei isn't overly praiseworthy IMO. They just agree with a handed down attribution 

 

 

To be fair this appears to be pretty common for this period of appraisals of Norishige:

 

Juyo 17: The characteristics of this smith are also recognized, so the attribution may be accepted.

Juyo 18: This Katana possesses the above characteristics and its workmanship is good.

Juyo 19: This Katana is one for which the traditional attribution may be accepted.

Juyo 20.1: The attribution is acceptable.

Juyo 20.2: All show the characteristic style of this smith.

 

None of these attributions are elaborate or praiseworthy. None talk to it being an excellent blade. All are subdued and restrained. Just the style of the assessors at the time?

 

The first exception happens in Juyo 21: It is a work that fully shows Norishige’s skill and characteristics, and is a masterpiece among his works. 

 

Needless to say this elevated praise saw this blade go onto TokuJu in Shinsa 2.

 

So no praise equals Juyo and lots of praise equals TokuJu?

 

[eternal_newbie]

Most of the early Juyo setsumei are fairly concise, yes (to the point of sounding terse in comparison to modern setsumei) – especially if an attribution already existed from some other source, such as a Hon'ami or a well-known sword scholar.

[MassiveMoonHeh]

26 minutes ago, MassiveMoonHeh said:

To be fair this appears to be pretty common for this period of appraisals of Norishige:

 

Juyo 17: The characteristics of this smith are also recognized, so the attribution may be accepted.

Juyo 18: This Katana possesses the above characteristics and its workmanship is good.

Juyo 19: This Katana is one for which the traditional attribution may be accepted.

Juyo 20.1: The attribution is acceptable.

Juyo 20.2: All show the characteristic style of this smith.

 

None of these attributions are elaborate or praiseworthy. None talk to it being an excellent blade. All are subdued and restrained. Just the style of the assessors at the time?

 

The first exception happens in Juyo 21: It is a work that fully shows Norishige’s skill and characteristics, and is a masterpiece among his works. 

 

Needless to say this elevated praise saw this blade go onto TokuJu in Shinsa 2.

 

So no praise equals Juyo and lots of praise equals TokuJu?

 

Even TokuJu blades appear to get the subdued response TokuJu 6/Juyo 24: Although this Katana is Mumei, it is in accord with those, and the attribution to Norishige can be fully accepted.

 

Basically... it ticked all the boxes so it is TokuJu - thanks.

 

Reckon, I would still take this blade if it was given to me though. 

[MassiveMoonHeh]

6 hours ago, nulldevice said:

Not so cool is the fact that in the old Eirakudo listing, the umegane looks to have been "touched up" to be near invisible. 

I have to admit I love going through Eirakudo's photos but if their touch ups are hiding faults with blades then this goes beyond presenting the blade in it's best light and becomes poor business practice.

 

As many overseas clients will buy a blade online and never see it in person before it gets dropped off at their front door I think all images need to be as honest as possible. 

 

Swords are only increasing in value and big money is being asked here - one would hate to spend that kind of money to find a fault.

 

As old timers will say, it is always best to see a blade in person and even better have an expert review the blade for you - I know @Andrew Ickeringill does this for his clients and can highly recommend his services.

 

Otherwise asking for 4K videos and raw, close up & untouched up photos seems prudent here.

 

As @Lewis B pointed out... Caveat Emptor!

[Lewis B]

20 hours ago, MassiveMoonHeh said:

 

As an aside I do believe the Habaki is probably one of my favourite Habaki - ever - a lot of love and care put into that piece.

 

 

Agreed. Thats is one nice habaki. The workmanship is exquisite..

 

Back to the meat and potatoes, the blade. The Eirakudo photos are quite telling. Not for failing to clearly show the umegane, but for providing an explanation why a kitae ware is there in the first place. Its obvious from the photos that the blade has received some significant thinning in that section as evidenced by a reduction in the thickness of the lower edge of the bohi (right half of the image below). This likely exposed the forge weld defect requiring the umegane work for concealment. There could even be some initial exposure of shingane here too looking at the reduction in quality of the hada. A good example of why its important to carefully consider the impact of a fresh polish on a sword.

 

 

It then widens again as the camera movers closer to the kissaki. To my mind this is a deliberate attempt to conceal quite a serious issue that will undoubtedly impact value for the buyer. 

 

 

I also think the bohi has been reworked recently ie widened, to disguise this inconsistency. The Samurai Nippon photos lack the flat shinogi-ji border.

 

[Hoshi]

Hi,

 

Please be careful with AI translation when you’re using a commercial model not trained on this specific task. This warning holds for any kind of field-specific questions, exercise care and assume it is wrong unless proven otherwise. 
 

NihontoWatch detects NBHTK Setsumei, classifies them, and uses a translation system specifically tuned to our specific field. As a result, the translations are generally highly accurate. However, before a big purchase, get a professional translation. 
 

In the certificate section, just press the Japanese Setsumei extract from the zufu and the translation will appear.
 

Currently, It only works for item where the dealer posts a zufu extract. 
 

Yes, this is umegane on the blade. You can see it in Eirakudo’s original listing, albeit faintly and you really need to squint. 

Excellent blades attributed Norishige blades have become exceedingly rare and prices for this artist have gone vertical in the past few years.
 

It is the most searched for artisan on NihontoWatch. 
 

Also be aware of the sessions in the 70’s, while there are many treasures contained in the “phone book” sessions that made tokuju or can still make tokuju today, the variance is large and many pieces wouldn’t make the cut today anymore. 

Regarding the interpretation of setsumei themselves, it is quite an advanced topic and I would caution against “reading too much into it” - one needs to be aware of linguistic trends, and so on. Likewise, a blade being “Den” has no impact on elevation odds. There are many things like that are not intuitive. 
 

I hope this helps,

 

Hoshi 

[Lewis B]

Speaking of Den attributions for hokuriku-mono school production this Den Tametsugu is an interesting piece. The subdued nioiguchi eliminating a Go connection and lack of Matsukawa hada veering away from Norishige. I might have gone masterwork Ko-Uda if it wasn't for the elongated chu-kissaki. An example of a high level early Tametsugu seems like a good call. Overall a very nice sword and fairly priced currently. 

 

https://sword-auction.com/ja/product/32500/as26228-tachi：-mumei-unsigned-den-tametsugu-為継the-50th-nbthk-juyo-token/ 

[Schneeds]

4 hours ago, Lewis B said:

Speaking of Den attributions for hokuriku school production this Den Tametsugu is an interesting piece. The subdued nioiguchi eliminating a Go connection and lack of Matsukawa hada veering away from Norishige. I might have gone masterwork Ko-Uda if it wasn't for the elongated chu-kissaki. An example of a high level early Tametsugu seems like a good call. Overall a very nice sword and fairly priced currently. 

 

https://sword-auction.com/ja/product/32500/as26228-tachi：-mumei-unsigned-den-tametsugu-為継the-50th-nbthk-juyo-token/ 

I don't know if it's the narrowness and tapering of the saki-haba, but something about the sugata just doesn't work for me.  Which is a pity because otherwise I agree, a nice offering in that range.  

[Lewis B]

14 hours ago, Lewis B said:

Speaking of Den attributions for hokuriku-mono school production this Den Tametsugu is an interesting piece. The subdued nioiguchi eliminating a Go connection and lack of Matsukawa hada veering away from Norishige. I might have gone masterwork Ko-Uda if it wasn't for the elongated chu-kissaki. An example of a high level early Tametsugu seems like a good call. Overall a very nice sword and fairly priced currently. 

 

https://sword-auction.com/ja/product/32500/as26228-tachi：-mumei-unsigned-den-tametsugu-為継the-50th-nbthk-juyo-token/ 

Sold for 5milJPY

[Tetsu]

On 7/28/2026 at 11:18 PM, Lewis B said:

Sold for 5milJPY

I'm the lucky new owner.  My second dose of luck was doing the wire transfer 1 day before the Yen got a boost on Friday.  I patiently waited for a nice and reasonably priced Soshu blade for about 3 years, and it paid off (although my wallet tells me otherwise).  Hopefully it doesn't get stolen by one of the fine government employees in US Customs.

 

RVA Katana tried to auction snipe me by out-bidding 90 seconds before the end of auction, the auction history tells all.  He'll need to stick with doing more TikTok videos about his (admittedly enviable) Nagamaki and Odachi a bit longer.

[eternal_newbie]

Well done, reasonably-priced good Soshu is indeed becoming harder to acquire. Enjoy your new sword, and feel free to post pictures of your own once you have it in hand . 

[Lewis B]

9 hours ago, Tetsu said:

I'm the lucky new owner.  My second dose of luck was doing the wire transfer 1 day before the Yen got a boost on Friday.  I patiently waited for a nice and reasonably priced Soshu blade for about 3 years, and it paid off (although my wallet tells me otherwise).  Hopefully it doesn't get stolen by one of the fine government employees in US Customs.

 

RVA Katana tried to auction snipe me by out-bidding 90 seconds before the end of auction, the auction history tells all.  He'll need to stick with doing more TikTok videos about his (admittedly enviable) Nagamaki and Odachi a bit longer.

Smart choice and worth the wait. I was tempted myself but timing was bad. I would seriously consider getting a Sayagaki done by Tanobe while its still in Japan. Look forward to seeing some photos when you receive it. 

 

As for potential thefts. Ask Tsurata to hide an airtag in the box. Cheap insurance. 

[eternal_newbie]

45 minutes ago, Lewis B said:

If the person preparing the oshigata made a mistake how common is such an error? Is the oshigata used to inform the preparation of the setsumei and thus explain why the oversight was perpetuated? Or are the two prepared independently. Is the information double-checked to confirm accuracy before the Juyo Zufu is released and sword returned to the owner?

 

Worth noting that the Aoi Art listing description also states that it is iori-mune, so I would assume the Tsuruta oshigata is the one in error here. This also lines up with the main body of Tametsugu daito works.

[Lewis B]

16 minutes ago, eternal_newbie said:

 

Worth noting that the Aoi Art listing description also states that it is iori-mune, so I would assume the Tsuruta oshigata is the one in error here. This also lines up with the main body of Tametsugu daito works.

Doesn't this describe mitsumune 三棟となる。? I see a similar phrase on the Zufu.