Possibly real, possibly fake military(?) sword

[Patinamax]

Hi all, I have a customer insisting (he may be right, but it seems fairly unlikely, but I am ignorant on this type of sword) he has a WWII or earlier. No markings that I can see (possibly worn and rusted over) and the end of the sword looks suspect as well (not to mention the damage to the blade, tip etc). I was not given any information on the provenance except that it was from his father, who was a photographer (American) in Japan near the end of the war and he brought it home with him (that is he story, and at the moment I have no reason to doubt it). If anyone has any information so I can let him know, that would be very helpful, and of course as always, thank you - and feel free to request any additional pictures you think are necessary. 

 

Some of the fittings do appear to be older, and this may indeed be a sword put together from various parts, original, fake, mismatched etc. 

 

I will have a few pictures posted to the replies as the size limit makes it difficult to fit all the pictures in the original post. 

[Patinamax]

[John C]

Lance:

Seems legit to me. Not ww2 but older blade. If you could take off the habaki (brass collar) and show that area where the tang meets the blade, it may tell us more (the imaginary line drawn between the edge and back should be perpendicular to the center line of the tang. Chinese copies are usually off-center).

 

John C.

[Geraint]

Dear Lance.

This is a Japanese sword in handachi koshirae, so far it seems perfectly OK.  It is older than WWII and sadly neglected.  The end of the nakago/tang suggests that the sword has been shortened from a longer blade.  An overall picture of the mounts and the length from tip to the notch on the back  of the blade where the habaki sits would be useful.  

 

All the best.

Edited July 11 by Geraint

[Patinamax]

On 7/10/2026 at 12:54 PM, John C said:

Lance:

Seems legit to me. Not ww2 but older blade. If you could take off the habaki (brass collar) and show that area where the tang meets the blade, it may tell us more (the imaginary line drawn between the edge and back should be perpendicular to the center line of the tang. Chinese copies are usually off-center).

 

John C.

Hi John, thank you for the reply. I have been busy but will attempt to get more pictures and properly remove the habaki when I get some time (it is very stuck) and update you. 

[Patinamax]

On 7/11/2026 at 1:18 AM, Geraint said:

Dear Lance.

This is a Japanese sword in handachi koshirae, so far it seems perfectly OK.  It is older than WWII and sadly neglected.  The end of the nakago/tang suggests that the sword has been shortened from a longer blade.  An overall picture of the mounts and the length from tip to the notch on the back  of the blade where the habaki sits would be useful.  

 

All the best.

Thank you for the reply! I will be trying to get more pictures here soon so we can all get a better look, and remove the habaki if possible. I'll try to have more pictures uploaded by the end of the day.

[Patinamax]

Here is another round of more pictures, the length from the tip to the habaki is approximately 24.75 inches. One more round of pictures incoming, and I will upload more another day when I can remove the habaki.

[Patinamax]

Last round of pics for today, sorry if they are not as helpful as they could be, I have limited time at the store to take them unfortunately, however I was able to get closer, better pictures of the motif(s). 

[Patinamax]

Sorry about the delay all, finally got the habaki removed and managed to get some pictures. Hope these work, and there seems to be no markings that I can see. 

[John C]

Lance:

Same assessment. An older blade in need of some love, however it is legit. The red line in the pic is the munemachi-hamachi line I was referenceing. Looks fine. The green circle shows a lot of wear where the habaki contacts the edge. This is a result of age (removing and reinstalling the habaki). So in all, a good sign for legitimacy.

 

John C.

[The Blacksmith]

John, just a thought, would the removal of the habaki cause any wear to the ha and the hamachi? I would have thought being made of copper, or silver etc., that being significantly softer than the blade that this would cause no damage  whatsoever. A copper coin is after all sometimes used to remove red rust from a blade for this reason.

I might suggest that the wear in the hamachi is from polishing or repolishing, which as you say, is a good sign of age.

[John C]

Russ:

Yes. The habaki is softer material, however that area is so thin it doesn't take much to start to round over that small edge. Think about how we caution against even softer materials like saw dust scratching the blade. The material in conjunction with a bit of rust can cause weakness where it is thin.

Another issue, albeit WAY beyond my level of expertise, is the incompatibility of metals when moisture is introduced. I know some metals can react with others causing corrosion and weakness (think galvanized pipes and copper pipes in plumbing). Just another thought as to why that area could wear like that.

 

John C. 

[Bruce Pennington]

Seems like I read once that the machi going away was due to too many polishes. 

[Matsunoki]

Tsuba (once probably quite nice) is hawk in pine tree with flying geese on reverse

Menuki look like flower carts

Fuchi kashira scrolling karakusa with Kirimon

….all Edo period….looks perfectly genuine but badly neglected as others have said. 

Does it have a saya? (Scabbard)

[Scogg]

46 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Seems like I read once that the machi going away was due to too many polishes. 

Indeed, after polishes, the hamachi and munemachi can lose material. Another way to determine if a sword has received many polishes, is measuring the kasane on the thickest part of the nakago-mune versus the kasane at the munemachi.

Often times, on blades that have received a lot of polishes, you can clearly see the difference in thickness between the red line versus the green line; see below:
 

Edited July 16 by Scogg
formatting/spelling/grammar

[Scogg]

@Patinamax, I'm going to move your post to the Nihonto section. In my non-expert opinion, your sword is does not show signs of being fitted for World War Two, but rather shows signs of being considerably older.

One thing that would really help, is an image of the SUGATA on a dark nonreflective background. That's the entire sword, without fittings or habaki, photograph taken centered from above. To determine age of a blade, generally we observe the SUGATA.

Additional photos, if possible, would be of any hamon activity, or jihada, or if you could capture an image of the boshi. These will be very hard to capture on a sword that's out-of-polish, but if you are able to, it would help the more knowledgable offer input.

Edit: I see that you're in California. If the owner could bring this sword to the upcoming San Francisco sword show; they'll be able to get some really valuable input from in-hand observation. If you plan to attend, I would read up on sword handling etiquette just so you don't inadvertently offend anyone. I re-read it every time I go to a show: https://swordsofjapan.com/nihonto-library/nbthk-etiquette/

Best,
-Sam

Edited July 16 by Scogg
Edit:

[Patinamax]

Here are the pictures of what was asked for. Very difficult to get a picture of the boshi, as I do not even see the fold in the way I am used to seeing them, perhaps that is just me, but I took a couple pictures at different angle. Apologies for the quality and background, these were the best I could get in a limited time. Hopefully they help, and the sugata is visible enough.

 

As always, I very much appreciate all the help from everyone. Sam, thank you for moving it to the appropriate section.

[Scogg]

I was hoping that you'd receive more input; although it's challenging to say much from what little we can see.

I guess I'll do my best, and throw out some speculation below:

There does not appear to be much sori; and I suspect much of it's original form was lost if/when it was shortened. I suspect your sword is o-suriage; and when I use my imagination to extend your blade to what may have been it's original length, I get the impression of early to middle Muromachi period.

If your sword is not shortened, and retains it's original length and nakago, I would think shinto period.

Some measurements may help those who are more knowledgable; and please understand I'm merely guessing here:
https://japaneseswordindex.com/measure.htm

Best of luck,
-Sam

[Rivkin]

There are two pictures which hint at koto, but otherwise its very difficult to state anything.

[Robert S]

On 7/16/2026 at 7:00 AM, John C said:

Russ:

Yes. The habaki is softer material, however that area is so thin it doesn't take much to start to round over that small edge. Think about how we caution against even softer materials like saw dust scratching the blade. The material in conjunction with a bit of rust can cause weakness where it is thin.

Another issue, albeit WAY beyond my level of expertise, is the incompatibility of metals when moisture is introduced. I know some metals can react with others causing corrosion and weakness (think galvanized pipes and copper pipes in plumbing). Just another thought as to why that area could wear like that.

 

John C. 

You're thinking of galvanic corrosion.  It can certainly happen if there's enough moisture around to act as an electrolyte, and yes, it would corrode the steel, rather than the copper alloy.  However, I'd be surprised if it only corroded that one point of contact.