Matsunoki Posted July 9 Report Posted July 9 ….many imported for sale….from Japan?? https://www.jgauction.com/auction/261-fine-Japanese-art/ 1 Quote
Lewis B Posted July 9 Report Posted July 9 (edited) Some nice looking swords. I especially like the Den Osafune Kagamitsu. But prices seem rather...... ambitious. Factor in VAT and 24% Buyers Premium....Ouch 16k sterling (thats at least 23k after fees etc) for a Fuyuhiro tanto and later generation too, is absolutely crazy. Or I had a stupendous buy with my 3rd gen Fuyuhiro yoroidoshi Edited July 9 by Lewis B 1 Quote
eternal_newbie Posted July 9 Report Posted July 9 1 hour ago, Lewis B said: 16k sterling (thats at least 23k after fees etc) for a Fuyuhiro tanto and later generation too, is absolutely crazy. As is 44k for a TH Tadahiro (early shodai Tadayoshi) when a nice Juyo Shizu can be had for that price. Even the Ayanokoji is priced in "expected to sail through TokuJu shinsa with ease" range for a Juyo piece. Out of the high-end swords, the Den Osafune Kagemitsu is ironically (while still expensive for TH) the most reasonably priced, given the maker, health and general quality of the work, and is also my favourite of the items in that lot. 3 Quote
YourBabyBjornBorg Posted July 9 Report Posted July 9 A TH first Gen. Tadayoshi (I think this is written in the paper) starting at almost 10 mil Yen is...... 1 Quote
Lewis B Posted July 9 Report Posted July 9 (edited) 15 minutes ago, eternal_newbie said: Out of the high-end swords, the Den Osafune Kagemitsu is ironically (while still expensive for TH) the most reasonably priced, given the maker, health and general quality of the work, and is also my favourite of the items in that lot. Should sail through Juyo but $150k is silly money even with Juyo. Edited July 9 by Lewis B 1 Quote
eternal_newbie Posted July 9 Report Posted July 9 12 minutes ago, YourBabyBjornBorg said: A TH first Gen. Tadayoshi (I think this is written in the paper) Good catch, thanks; I updated my post 1 Quote
Jussi Ekholm Posted July 9 Report Posted July 9 Lot 1 - Ayanokōji https://web.archive.org/web/20250807093456/https://www.seiyudo.com/ka-070325.htm Lot4 - Kagemitsu https://web.archive.org/web/20240531042531/https://www.aoijapan.com/katanamumei-attributed-to-osafune-kagemitsu-nbthk-tokubetsu-hozon-token/ https://web.archive.org/web/20251008162340/https://www.seiyudo.com/ka-091325.htm 2 1 Quote
Lewis B Posted July 9 Report Posted July 9 34 minutes ago, Jussi Ekholm said: Lot4 - Kagemitsu https://web.archive.org/web/20240531042531/https://www.aoijapan.com/katanamumei-attributed-to-osafune-kagemitsu-nbthk-tokubetsu-hozon-token/ https://web.archive.org/web/20251008162340/https://www.seiyudo.com/ka-091325.htm 3x price hike in less than 2 years. Not a bad return. Beats gold and stocks. Now its 24milJPY without any paper upgrade. Nuts. Quote
Lewis B Posted July 9 Report Posted July 9 The Sadakatsu seems like the best deal of the bunch. Tanobe gave a nice writeup. 2 Quote
nulldevice Posted July 9 Report Posted July 9 9 minutes ago, Lewis B said: 3x price hike in less than 2 years. Not a bad return. Beats gold and stocks. Now its 24milJPY without any paper upgrade. Nuts. With fees and VAT its ~$125-140k USD (109-122k euro). Absolutely wild. You're approaching TJ pricing at that point for TH Den Kagemitsu 2 Quote
Takezo Posted July 9 Report Posted July 9 (edited) The long katana Tadahiro with koshirae was also on Seiyudo just a few months ago, I remember that awesome tsuba it has. Seiyudo had more detailed pictures, but it's a really spectacular gold inlaid dragon on iron. Edited July 9 by Takezo 1 Quote
Takezo Posted July 9 Report Posted July 9 (edited) Actually I am pretty sure all of those high end blades on the top row are from Seiyudo....I wonder if they took them to Utrecht and didn't want to re-import them to Japan? Alternatively, maybe someone bought them all with hopes of flipping them. Edited July 9 by Takezo 1 Quote
eternal_newbie Posted July 9 Report Posted July 9 12 minutes ago, Takezo said: The long katana Tadahiro with koshirae was also on Seiyudo just a few months ago, I remember that awesome tsuba it has. Seiyudo had more detailed pictures, but it's a really spectacular gold inlaid dragon on iron. Ah, maybe the koshirae makes that price more reasonable. And yes, that's Seiyudo's photography style. 1 Quote
Lewis B Posted July 9 Report Posted July 9 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Takezo said: Actually I am pretty sure all of those high end blades on the top row are from Seiyudo....I wonder if they took them to Utrecht and didn't want to re-import them to Japan? Alternatively, maybe someone bought them all with hopes of flipping them. That crossed my mind too. But I don't remember seeing a Den Kagemitsu in Utrecht. Den Chogi, yes. Edited July 9 by Lewis B 1 Quote
Marcin Posted July 9 Report Posted July 9 4 hours ago, Lewis B said: 3x price hike in less than 2 years. Not a bad return. Beats gold and stocks. Now its 24milJPY without any paper upgrade. Nuts. Micron is like 12x in less then a year :D Quote
nulldevice Posted July 9 Report Posted July 9 2 minutes ago, Marcin said: Micron is like 12x in less then a year :D Sandisk, WD, Samsung, and anyone else who is manufacturing the NAND flash chips or assembling them into drives is making huge money right now. I think Micron mentioned in Q4 of '25 that they had already pre-sold all of their production capacity in 2026 and half of 2027. Quote
Marcin Posted July 9 Report Posted July 9 (edited) 4 minutes ago, nulldevice said: Sandisk, WD, Samsung, and anyone else who is manufacturing the NAND flash chips or assembling them into drives is making huge money right now. I think Micron mentioned in Q4 of '25 that they had already pre-sold all of their production capacity in 2026 and half of 2027. Bro, We are going offtopic but I think it's at top with drops being not a usual correction but sign of bubble burst. Same with spacex - forced nasdaq obligatory buyout will end with obvious drops starting from current month - imo sell now all connected with AI. Edited July 9 by Marcin Quote
nulldevice Posted July 9 Report Posted July 9 To bring it back on topic, are we on the "Top" of nihonto? There are other threads discussing exchange rates and foreign dollars going much further in Japan, but it also seems many dealers are compensating for that with their prices on swords going foreign. Similarly at DTI this past year, there seemed to be a solid jump in Juyo prices across the board and now many TH zaimei blades were being sold for what their Juyo counterparts were just a few years back. This auction is yet another example of someone selling a ~4m JPY sword sold just a few years ago on Aoi Japan and now going for 20M JPY starting price with fees + VAT at Tokubetsu Hozon. For 25M, you could've bought Aoi's TokuJu Kunitoshi just a few months back or a myriad of 5 or 6 good Juyo blades. Seems like the auction house is whalefishing on a number of these pieces. 2 Quote
Bryce Posted July 9 Report Posted July 9 G'day Guys, I recognize the Gassan Sadakatsu from "The Japanese Gallery" shop in Kensington, London. I suspect this is where they all come from. Cheers, Bryce 2 1 Quote
Lewis B Posted July 9 Report Posted July 9 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Bryce said: G'day Guys, I recognize the Gassan Sadakatsu from "The Japanese Gallery" shop in Kensington, London. I suspect this is where they all come from. Cheers, Bryce Correct https://japanesegallery.com/katana-signed-gassan-sadakatsu-taisho-era-nbthk-tokubetsu-hozon-rp01 Plus these https://japanesegallery.com/katana-signed-musashi-daijo-fujiwara-tadahiro-nbthk-tokubetsu-hozon-rp04 https://japanesegallery.com/katana-signed-soshuju-tsunahiro-nbthk-tokubetsu-hozon-rp02 Edited July 9 by Lewis B 1 1 Quote
Lewis B Posted July 9 Report Posted July 9 (edited) The Sadakatsu was also offered for sale at Sotheby's 18 months ago with a 20-30k estimate. Can't see if it sold. https://www.sothebys.com/en/buy/auction/2024/art-of-Japan/a-katana-signed-osaka-ju-gassan-sadakatsu-kinsaku Edited July 9 by Lewis B 1 1 Quote
MassiveMoonHeh Posted July 9 Report Posted July 9 45 minutes ago, Lewis B said: Can't see if it sold. Never sold. 1 Quote
MassiveMoonHeh Posted July 9 Report Posted July 9 First two off the ranks: https://www.jgauction.com/auction/261-fine-Japanese-art/lot-1-koto-katana/ - Juyo 25.7M YEN for Katana before taxes and shipping (Must be a nice Koshirae) https://nihontowatch.com/listing/616 - 7.7M YEN for a Tachi before taxes and shipping. https://www.jgauction.com/auction/261-fine-Japanese-art/lot-4-koto-katana/ - TH for 20.2M YEN before taxes and shipping. https://nihontowatch.com/listing/491926 - Juyo for 25M YEN before taxes and shipping. These kids are having a laugh - whilst I would love for prices to start rising like this across the board you cannot pull this kind of stunt without harming the industry - without the confidence of knowing you can sell these blades at these prices it just makes the whole industry look bad as ultimately none of these blades will sell at these insanely elevated prices giving the impression that the whole market is dead. This is not how you stir up excitement or demand. This is how you make people ignore it. Unless of course they fake all the sales and so set a new price benchmark - it has happened before, look up Heritage Auctions and the original Unboxed Nintendo Mario game. Their fake sale to themselves started a new collecting mania. Perhaps that is their plan? 3 Quote
Lewis B Posted July 10 Report Posted July 10 (edited) 12 hours ago, Lareon said: I didin't sell no, i was looking at it too. I can see the appeal. Appears Sadakatsu was aiming at Yamato Hosho utsushi with all that masame hada. Shame the boshi isn't clearer to be sure. Edited July 10 by Lewis B 1 Quote
Lewis B Posted July 10 Report Posted July 10 (edited) 15 hours ago, MassiveMoonHeh said: First two off the ranks: https://www.jgauction.com/auction/261-fine-Japanese-art/lot-1-koto-katana/ - Juyo 25.7M YEN for Katana before taxes and shipping (Must be a nice Koshirae) https://nihontowatch.com/listing/616 - 7.7M YEN for a Tachi before taxes and shipping. https://www.jgauction.com/auction/261-fine-Japanese-art/lot-4-koto-katana/ - TH for 20.2M YEN before taxes and shipping. https://nihontowatch.com/listing/491926 - Juyo for 25M YEN before taxes and shipping. These kids are having a laugh - whilst I would love for prices to start rising like this across the board you cannot pull this kind of stunt without harming the industry - without the confidence of knowing you can sell these blades at these prices it just makes the whole industry look bad as ultimately none of these blades will sell at these insanely elevated prices giving the impression that the whole market is dead. This is not how you stir up excitement or demand. This is how you make people ignore it. Unless of course they fake all the sales and so set a new price benchmark - it has happened before, look up Heritage Auctions and the original Unboxed Nintendo Mario game. Their fake sale to themselves started a new collecting mania. Perhaps that is their plan? Could this extravagant pricing be an attempt to take advantage of the draconian shipping restrictions of nihonto into the UK? There must be non-savvy local buyers with deep pockets gagging to buy a Juyo or TH with a big name attribution. It will be interesting to see if these lots get any nibbles. Edited July 10 by Lewis B 2 Quote
Lareon Posted July 10 Report Posted July 10 @Lewis B this was my thought too, the prices here are a magnitude higher than elsewhere due to difficulties bringing them into the UK. Quote
Takezo Posted July 10 Report Posted July 10 (edited) 23 hours ago, nulldevice said: To bring it back on topic, are we on the "Top" of nihonto? There are other threads discussing exchange rates and foreign dollars going much further in Japan, but it also seems many dealers are compensating for that with their prices on swords going foreign. Similarly at DTI this past year, there seemed to be a solid jump in Juyo prices across the board and now many TH zaimei blades were being sold for what their Juyo counterparts were just a few years back. This auction is yet another example of someone selling a ~4m JPY sword sold just a few years ago on Aoi Japan and now going for 20M JPY starting price with fees + VAT at Tokubetsu Hozon. For 25M, you could've bought Aoi's TokuJu Kunitoshi just a few months back or a myriad of 5 or 6 good Juyo blades. Seems like the auction house is whalefishing on a number of these pieces. Without a doubt they are whalefishing. The prestige of the auction house name resonates for people unconnected to the Japanese market, among other nuances mentioned in the thread I would bet. Same with prestigious American auction houses, like for example I believe there were quite a few overpriced pieces here: https://www.sothebys.com/en/buy/auction/2025/important-Japanese-swords-and-armour-from-the-paul-l-davidson-collection?lotFilter=AllLots Going back to Tsuruta's blogs, if they are to be believed at face value, it seems good swords are becoming harder and harder to come by, but I am sure that is cyclical as old collections release their holdings. But I have to believe that over time the prices will naturally rise as some of these swords are lost or damaged to bad stewards, stolen, destroyed by family inheritors that don't care or know of what they have etc. The existing pool becomes smaller and the general Japan craze continues to sweep the world, statistically putting more eyes and money into swords as people want a piece of a culture they admire. Edited July 10 by Takezo 1 Quote
Matsunoki Posted July 25 Author Report Posted July 25 Unsurprisingly none of the big money pieces sold. Just a couple of the cheaper ones got away. 2 1 2 Quote
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