General question about reading mei

[John C]

When deciphering a mei that is not written in standard form, but rather in some stylish or abbreviated fashion, do the number of strokes usually stay the same?

For example, the 3 pictured are variations of the one in the bottom right corner. Would they all have the same stroke count even though written differently?

 

Thank you for looking,

John C.

[Mark S.]

I’m not sure if what I am about to say will help, but I’m pretty sure the answer is “yes”.  The stroke count is based on the formal way of writing a kanji character.  If you look at Sesko’s Nihonto Compendium translation charts, the stroke count is based on the first formal kanji, but then he includes the semi formal and informal versions and variations for each.  They still remain within the same stroke count category.  Not sure if this answers your question? 

[Mark S.]

[Mark S.]

Also, it took me a while to catch on that the “Kane” with the ‘4 separate strokes’ underneath was the same Kane kanji.  Once I made that connection, besides “Kuni” it is one of the most recognizable kanji to me now.  

[Mark S.]

Not to hijack, but if anyone is interested in understanding a little bit more about stroke counts and the formal, semi-formal and informal versions of kanji characters, I highly recommend the book: “Shodo, the Quiet Art of Japanese Zen Calligraphy.” By Shozo Sato.  Not directly nihonto related but interesting nonetheless.  VERY reasonable $… about $25.  Just a quick side note… he was my Chanoyu (Japanese Tea Ceremony) instructor when I was in college at University of Illinois.  He was (unfortunately he is no longer with us) a master of tea ceremony, calligraphy, kabuki, and other Japanese Arts.  Google him if interested. I will always be grateful for Sato Sensei and all he passed on to me…   

 

 

[John C]

2 hours ago, Mark S. said:

“Kane” with the ‘4 separate strokes’

That was one of the characters that got me interested. Looking at Sesko's stroke count, Kane is 10. But I count more than 10 small strokes on those examples. 

I was thinking that if I didn't recognize a character, I could count the strokes and go from there. But that only works if they use the same number of strokes regardless of how they actually form the character.

 

John C.

[John C]

2 hours ago, Mark S. said:

but if anyone is interested in understanding a little bit more about stroke counts a

Thanks, Mark. Just ordered it!

 

John C.

[Mark S.]

11 minutes ago, John C said:

Thanks, Mark. Just ordered it!

 

John C.

I hope it helps.  Once you get it and take a look, please give me an honest evaluation.  I don’t want to recommend it if it doesn’t help at least a little.  

[ROKUJURO]

The stroke count will only help properly in case you know how to write. As an example, KUCHI (mouth) 口 is three strokes.
 

[YourBabyBjornBorg]

Hi! I think the official stroke counts of a character are calculated in their 楷書体 (Kaishotai/regular script, most of the fonts use this as their baseline, and this is the first and usually only script style taught to Chinese and Japanese children when in school).

 

Stroke counts are used in many ways, even for fortunetelling (姓名判断/Seimeihandan/onomancy) in Japan, I think.

 

 

This would be counted as one single stroke (a "hook" as we say), too. Even though it took two strokes of a chisel.

 

Stroke counts of a Sosho/grass script character can vary vastly, as shown below.

 

(That trippy and seemingly deformed two-stroke 兼 at the bottom-right corner is written by one of the greatest modern artists, Yu Youren, too.)

 

 

The word for tiger (虎, as in Kotetsu's 虎彻, he uses this Sosho version in some of his work) in Sosho is usually written in one stroke, too.

 

 

There is even a specific genre because of this called one-stroke tiger ("一笔虎"), where the one character is the only content of a whole artwork. 

 

 

...wait, what was I talking about again?

 

Anyway, I'm afraid stroke counts are very much subject to change in any style other than regular script, therefore not applicable as a tool for deciphering a Mei : (

[John C]

Thank you, B.J. At least I know my thinking isn't going to work. Back to the rote memorization... 

 

John C.