New-to-me - interesting, but what is it?

[Flint62Smoothie]

Just came in …

 

Fully functional, but just missing the Trigger Guard & 2 pins and 1 pin that holds the main spring. The breech plug came right out! The bore will need refreshing.

Most interesting and curious, in no particular order:

-Appears to be sub-40 caliber, of 39” barrel

-No Japanese markings

-The large cross-pin securing the serpentine is locked in place by a pin down through the top, behind the tang

-No ‘through hole’ to hold cord

-Barrel is RIBBED the entire length, on the top-most octagonal facets

-Stock shows a line on the bottom, below the ramrod hole, but it is not cut through

-Inletting in barrel channel appears different that my other Tangs, with the slot cut below the ramrod hole, but what stands out is the deep scores for the bottom barrel flat

Any ideas?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Last photo … but I can take more as advised …

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Thanks for posting your new baby Dale.

Congratulations.

An unsigned gun.
From what I can see, despite those variations, there is nothing out of the ballpark there for a Japanese Tanegashima, (but I did not fully understand your last paragraph).

What is the internal diameter of the barrel in cm?

The muzzle surround gets me thinking Sakai but I’m getting other indications too. That butt shape, that water drop trigger, that oval sear guard, etc. Need to hit my books for some comparisons, but I don’t have them here right now.

She looks good. Will you be firing her?

[Bugyotsuji]

'sub 40 cal' means about 10 mm +/-?

This would make it unusual, a 細筒'hosozutsu' small-bore 射撃銃 'shageki-ju' target gun or small game gun. (Not the typical flashily decorated Sakai merchant’s gun of slightly larger bore.)

[Flint62Smoothie]

Thanks!

 

I’ll measure the bore later. I just thought the inletting looked ‘different’, what with the deep scores, but that just could the individual’s build method.

[Flint62Smoothie]

… now to find OR FORGE a replacement trigger guard!

[Bugyotsuji]

Many of them never had a trigger guard. Some have lost the guard and the inlet holes have simply been filled in. Guns with an extant trigger guard are relatively rare.

Good luck if you go the replacement route. I too like to restore anything obvious myself, or find someone to step in if it’s beyond my ability.

[Bugyotsuji]

44 minutes ago, Flint62Smoothie said:

Thanks!

 

I’ll measure the bore later. I just thought the inletting looked ‘different’, what with the deep scores, but that just could the individual’s build method.

Interesting! Some guns (Satsuma for example) had no split at all under the stock.

[Viper6924]

Let me jump in a tad late in your discussion

Looking at my own humble collection, guns without a trigger guard are usually small-caliber and they were most likely for target practise. If they have a trigger guard, but still small caliber, they tend to be used for hunting, even if they of course could be used for both. My own theory is that a trigger guard is more useful whilst out in the bush looking for game. You miss a step at least the guard protects you somewhat from touching the trigger causing a misfire. My five cents 🙂

 

Jan

[Bugyotsuji]

4 minutes ago, Viper6924 said:

Let me jump in a tad late in your discussion

Looking at my own humble collection, guns without a trigger guard are usually small-caliber and they were most likely for target practise. If they have a trigger guard, but still small caliber, they tend to be used for hunting, even if they of course could be used for both. My own theory is that a trigger guard is more useful whilst out in the bush looking for game. You miss a step at least the guard protects you somewhat from touching the trigger causing a misfire. My five cents 🙂

 

Jan

Yes, Jan, I like this idea. Generally with a matchlock you do not have the cord fitted or the serpentine 'cocked', so touching the trigger is not a problem.

With a fitted, burning match, however, a trip or a branch could indeed set it off early. A sniper might also appreciate a trigger guard.

 

As to your colection being 'humble', well, you are just being humble modest! 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Thanks all for the comments!

 

Yes, this one apparently had a TG at some point, as the inlets are empty and pins are missing, but more so ... I can see a slight bit of wear where they once sat. My goal is to restore it to shooting condition. I'll probably send the barrel off to Bobby Hoyt in PA to be honed smooth. He does a remarkable job, if people haven't heard of him before.

 

Off-topic ... yes, but he'll work on any BP barrel and has never had a threaded breech plug that he's not been able to successfully remove. He also will check the integrity of welded shut BPlugs. He even takes smaller bores and re-rifles them to whatever larger caliber the barrel steel will safely accomodate. Last time I had a smoothie barrel honed it was only $60 USD ... and it looked brand NEW! He also took a 62-cal smooth barrel and rifled it to be 62-cal rifled for my British Baker (think Sharpe's 95th Rifles) and that was only $100.