DENihontocollector Posted July 27 Report Posted July 27 Hello everyone, I would appreciate some informed opinions regarding a sword in my collection. It is a Katana attributed to Shikkake Norinaga (1st generation), founder of the Shikkake school in Yamato, dated to the late Kamakura period. Key details Attribution: Norinaga, 1st gen. (Shikkake school, Yamato tradition) Period: Late Kamakura Condition: ō‑suriage mumei (shortened, unsigned) but clearly attributed Certification: NBTHK Jūyō Token Sayagaki: By Tanobe Michihiro, confirming attribution to Norinaga (Shodai) Mountings: Complete koshirae with NBTHK Hozon papers; signed tsuba by Ichiryū Tomoyoshi IV (stylistically matching) Provenance: Documented provenance from a recognized European collection (details can be shared privately) Key specifications Nagasa (blade length): 64.2 cm Sori (curvature): 1.5 cm Motohaba (width at base): 3.0 cm Sakihaba (width at tip): 2.25 cm Kissaki-nagasa: 3.7 cm Nakago-nagasa: 20.4 cm Nakago-sori: 0.2 cm Kissaki: chu-kissaki Nakago: ō-suriage mumei (shortened, unsigned) From what I understand, there are fewer than 20 documented Norinaga blades at this level worldwide. Given the founder status and complete documented koshirae, I believe this places it above the more typical Yamato Jūyō blades (e.g., Tegai or Aoe). Questions How would the current (2025) market view such a piece? Are there recent comparable sales or price ranges for similar Yamato Jūyō founder works? Do you think the renewed interest in Yamato blades in recent years has narrowed the gap between Shikkake and higher‑tier schools like Hōshō or Senjuin? I am not listing it for sale here – I’m mainly seeking insight and experienced opinions to better understand its position in today’s market. Please check out the attached pictures and PDF (includes a translation of Tanobe’s sayagaki). Thank you in advance for your thoughts! Shikkake_Sayagaki_Final_Combined.pdf 1 2 Quote
Tokaido Posted July 27 Report Posted July 27 Hi Dennis, Look at Jussi's compilation of Juyo designated swords (Volumen 1-31) in the download area. It is listing 35 blades attributed to Shikkake Norinaga himself. 23 are longswords. So they are rare, but not superrare;-) Nice sword and koshirae, by the way. Greetings Andreas I would really love to see some closeups of hada and hamon on your sword. Yamato are my favourites;-) Btw actually the juyo Volumen are at no 69.. expect some more Norinaga in them during the 38 volumes, not yet included in Jussi's compilation 1 Quote
DENihontocollector Posted July 27 Author Report Posted July 27 Hi Andreas, thank you so much for the detailed info – I wasn’t aware there are already 35 Norinaga blades listed in Jussi’s compilation, but thats why I´m here for That puts things nicely into perspective. It’s also very interesting to hear that with Volumes 32–69 there might still be more Norinaga examples coming up! I’ll definitely upload some close-up shots of the hada and hamon soon – I wanted to make sure the lighting does them justice because they are quite subtle (typical Yamato traits). Glad to hear you like the koshirae as well – I personally find the signed Tomoyoshi tsuba fits it quite well stylistically. Thanks again for your feedback, and I’ll update the post shortly with more photos! Quote
Jacques Posted July 27 Report Posted July 27 Quote Do you think the renewed interest in Yamato blades in recent years has narrowed the gap between Shikkake and higher‑tier schools like Hōshō or Senjuin? Higher tier ? Why ? 1 Quote
Rawa Posted July 27 Report Posted July 27 Im relinking here shikkake sold yesterday. https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/210717856_japanese-katana-in-shirasaya-kae-saya-nbthk-montreal-quebec?utm_source=LA_Mobile_Share&utm_medium=mobile&utm_campaign=LAiOSshare 6k$ plus 23% premium. Tokuho no koshirae. 1 Quote
Rawa Posted July 27 Report Posted July 27 Please check @Jussi Ekholm list for comparison. https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/53018-Japanese-old-sword-database/#comments Mind blowing source. 1 Quote
DENihontocollector Posted July 27 Author Report Posted July 27 22 minutes ago, Jacques said: Higher tier ? Why ? Thank you for your reply – that’s actually a very good point to raise. When I referred to “higher tier,” I was thinking of how, in both historical literature and recent market observations, Hōshō and Senjuin blades tend to command higher prices and are more frequently highlighted in exhibitions. This seems partly due to the very distinctive hada (especially Hōshō’s straight masame-hada) and the often more refined workmanship that collectors and NBTHK papers emphasize. Shikkake, on the other hand, while being equally part of the Yamato Gokaden, seems to have been historically underappreciated – even though Norinaga was the founder of the school and some of his works are every bit as refined. In the last years I’ve noticed a growing interest in Yamato works in general; auction results and forum discussions suggest that the price gap is narrowing, even for Shikkake. Do you see this trend as well, or do you think the differences between these Yamato schools are overstated in today’s market? 1 Quote
DENihontocollector Posted July 27 Author Report Posted July 27 4 minutes ago, Rawa said: Please check @Jussi Ekholm list for comparison. https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/53018-Japanese-old-sword-database/#comments Thank you very much for taking the time to share these links and insights – I really appreciate it. I saw the Shikkake that sold yesterday; very interesting example. If I understood correctly, that one was Tokubetsu Hozon and not attributed to Norinaga, right? So it’s probably not directly comparable to a Jūyō Norinaga with Tanobe sayagaki and complete koshirae, but still very useful to see where the market is for lower‑papered Yamato works. I’ll also revisit Jussi Ekholm’s list – it’s such an excellent resource for tracking Jūyō examples across different schools and smiths. That should help me get a better overview of how often Norinaga appears compared to other Yamato smiths like Tegai, Hōshō, or Senjuin. Do you happen to know if there have been any more recent Jūyō or Tokubetsu Jūyō Shikkake sales in the last few years? Those seem harder to find than for other Yamato schools. Thanks again for the pointers – very helpful! Quote
Rawa Posted July 27 Report Posted July 27 @Jussi Ekholm should know he have sources to his database and if any of listing reappeared he definitely made some corrections. 1 Quote
DENihontocollector Posted July 27 Author Report Posted July 27 42 minutes ago, Tokaido said: Hi Dennis, Look at Jussi's compilation of Juyo designated swords (Volumen 1-31) in the download area. It is listing 35 blades attributed to Shikkake Norinaga himself. 23 are longswords. So they are rare, but not superrare;-) Nice sword and koshirae, by the way. Greetings Andreas I would really love to see some closeups of hada and hamon on your sword. Yamato are my favourites;-) Btw actually the juyo Volumen are at no 69.. expect some more Norinaga in them during the 38 volumes, not yet included in Jussi's compilation Regarding close‑ups of the hada and hamon: unfortunately I don’t have the proper camera equipment to capture those details well myself, but I will arrange to have proper photos taken. As soon as I have them, I’ll post them here for everyone to see. Thanks Thanks again – I’m still learning a lot about Yamato blades, so I really appreciate the input! Quote
oli Posted July 27 Report Posted July 27 There is an example, but TBH: https://eirakudo.shop/588100 1 Quote
DENihontocollector Posted July 27 Author Report Posted July 27 2 minutes ago, Rawa said: should know he have sources to his database and if any of listing reappeared he definitely made some corrections. Thanks, that’s good to know – it makes Jussi’s list even more valuable. I’ll spend some time over the next few days going through his list carefully to get a better understanding. Do you know if any of the Norinaga examples from earlier volumes have resurfaced or been updated recently? Quote
Lewis B Posted July 27 Report Posted July 27 Swordsmiths and schools can wax and wain in the market. I see many Juyo Papered Shikkake from the 60's and 70's but I think Shikkake in particular has lost favour more recently, hence the lower market pricing. Personally speaking I do think they are undervalued and a good purchase option. My first blade was a 70.6cm Yamato Shikkake. It passed TH in 2022 but failed at Juyo the following year, despite Tanobe sensei stating it was a candidate in his opinion. 2023 and 2024 have had especially low Juyo pass numbers for whatever reason. 1 Quote
DENihontocollector Posted July 27 Author Report Posted July 27 3 minutes ago, oli said: There is an example, but TBH: https://eirakudo.shop/588100 Hi oli, thank you very much for sharing this link – really informative! I ran it through a translation tool to get the details, and it was very helpful for understanding where this piece sits in the market. From what I can gather, the sword in the listing is also attributed to Shikkake Norinaga (late Kamakura), Tokubetsu Hozon, ō‑suriage mumei, in shirasaya without koshirae. It sold for around 2.8 million yen. This makes it a really good reference point to estimate where my sword might stand – probably in a significantly higher tier because of the Jūyō designation and complete mountings, but still great to have a comparable example. Thanks again – this kind of reference is exactly what I was hoping to see! 1 Quote
DENihontocollector Posted July 27 Author Report Posted July 27 10 minutes ago, Lewis B said: Swordsmiths and schools can wax and wain in the market. I see many Juyo Papered Shikkake from the 60's and 70's but I think Shikkake in particular has lost favour more recently, hence the lower market pricing. Personally speaking I do think they are undervalued and a good purchase option. My first blade was a 70.6cm Yamato Shikkake. It passed TH in 2022 but failed at Juyo the following year, despite Tanobe sensei stating it was a candidate in his opinion. 2023 and 2024 have had especially low Juyo pass numbers for whatever reason. Hi Lewis, thanks for sharing that insight – really interesting to hear about the drop in Shikkake popularity and the low Jūyō pass rates recently. Your example with the 70.6 cm blade really puts it into perspective. My own Norinaga received Jūyō papers in 2023, which makes your comment about the stricter pass rates even more interesting – it seems mine was fortunate to pass during a tough period. I also agree these blades feel undervalued for what they are. Quote
DENihontocollector Posted July 27 Author Report Posted July 27 36 minutes ago, Rawa said: So many juyo from this school. thank you for pointing me toward Jussi’s database – it’s really helpful for getting a broader perspective. Looking through it, I noticed there are about 35 Shikkake entries with Jūyō papers up to volume 31, with roughly two‑thirds being long blades (Katana or Tachi). It’s interesting to see that, while that number isn’t extremely low, Shikkake still remains much less common than, for example, Tegai or Hōshō in the same period. That makes it a good reference point when trying to understand where my own Norinaga fits in among the Yamato Gokaden. I plan to go through those entries in more detail over the next few days to get a clearer picture. Quote
Lewis B Posted July 27 Report Posted July 27 Here is a 2nd or 3rd gen signed Norinaga Shikkake with 1991 Juyo papers. The pricing is 10 years old but gives a reference point. https://www.aoijapan.net/masterpieceyamato-kuni-sikkake-norinaga/ 1 Quote
Rawa Posted July 27 Report Posted July 27 7 minutes ago, DENihontocollector said: thank you for pointing me toward Jussi’s database – it’s really helpful for getting a broader perspective. Looking through it, I noticed there are about 35 Shikkake entries with Jūyō papers up to volume 31, with roughly two‑thirds being long blades (Katana or Tachi). It’s interesting to see that, while that number isn’t extremely low, Shikkake still remains much less common than, for example, Tegai or Hōshō in the same period. That makes it a good reference point when trying to understand where my own Norinaga fits in among the Yamato Gokaden. I plan to go through those entries in more detail over the next few days to get a clearer picture. All thx to Jussi. I just spam his work. 1 Quote
Lewis B Posted July 27 Report Posted July 27 24 minutes ago, DENihontocollector said: My own Norinaga received Jūyō papers in 2023, Thats interesting. As we all know, Shinsa is a competition. If too many from a school or Gokaden are submitted in a given year the best ones will go through but others, that might have otherwise passed, could pass another year if the competition is weaker. Congratulations on your pass. I might not have been able to afford mine if it had passed. 1 Quote
DENihontocollector Posted July 27 Author Report Posted July 27 7 minutes ago, Rawa said: All thx to Jussi. I just spam his work. Incredible work!! Wow. So glad i came here to ask about my sword. I get so much information, thats priceless! Quote
DENihontocollector Posted July 27 Author Report Posted July 27 13 minutes ago, Lewis B said: Here is a 2nd or 3rd gen signed Norinaga Shikkake with 1991 Juyo papers. The pricing is 10 years old but gives a reference point. Hi Lewis, thank you so much for sharing that Aoi Japan reference – it’s an excellent comparison point. Looking at the details, that piece is a Jūyō Norinaga in shirasaya (no koshirae) and listed at about 4.7 million yen. I’ve made a small comparison table for clarity. This makes me think my piece would likely sit at about 1.5–2× higher in value (what do you think?), mainly because of the full mountings, fresh certification, and Tanobe attribution. Thanks again – this reference really helps put things into perspective for me. Quote
DENihontocollector Posted July 27 Author Report Posted July 27 12 minutes ago, Lewis B said: Thats interesting. As we all know, Shinsa is a competition. If too many from a school or Gokaden are submitted in a given year the best ones will go through but others, that might have otherwise passed, could pass another year if the competition is weaker. Congratulations on your pass. I might not have been able to afford mine if it had passed. thanks for explaining that – I never really thought of Shinsa as a kind of “competition” within a school, but it makes a lot of sense. It also explains why pass rates vary so much from year to year. And yes, I understand what you mean about affordability – I feel quite fortunate that mine passed Jūyō in 2023, especially given how strict the sessions have been lately. Your insights really help me understand Yamato blades and the NBTHK process better. Quote
Jussi Ekholm Posted July 27 Report Posted July 27 I will try to write an actual reply when I have time but here are the Jūyō numbers from all 70 sessions. 36 Shikkake Norinaga blades (signed + attributed) 103 Shikkake blades (attributed) 1 Quote
Lewis B Posted July 27 Report Posted July 27 3 minutes ago, DENihontocollector said: This makes me think my piece would likely sit at about 1.5–2× higher in value (what do you think?), mainly because of the full mountings, fresh certification, and Tanobe attribution. Tough one. A signed blade is going to have a greater commercial value vs one thats mumei. Yours has quite an early registration number which doesn't do it any harm. 1 1 Quote
DENihontocollector Posted July 27 Author Report Posted July 27 5 minutes ago, Jussi Ekholm said: will try to write an actual reply when I have time but here are the Jūyō numbers from all 70 sessions. 36 Shikkake Norinaga blades (signed + attributed) 103 Shikkake blades (attributed) Hi Jussi, thank you very much for sharing those numbers – they give a much clearer picture of how Shikkake and Norinaga blades appear across the Jūyō sessions. It’s very interesting to see how Norinaga pieces fit within the total Shikkake count. My own Norinaga received Jūyō papers in 2023, so this information really helps me understand where it stands in the broader context. I really appreciate all the work you’ve put into compiling and maintaining this database – it’s an invaluable resource for collectors like me. Quote
DENihontocollector Posted July 27 Author Report Posted July 27 4 minutes ago, Lewis B said: Tough one. A signed blade is going to have a greater commercial value vs one thats mumei. Yours has quite an early registration number which doesn't do it any harm. thanks for pointing that out – I can definitely see how a signed blade would hold more commercial value compared to a mumei attribution. In my case, the Tanobe sayagaki helps a bit, but of course it’s not the same as having a signature. Good to hear that the earlier registration number is seen positively – I wasn’t sure if that detail mattered much in the market. It’s really helpful to get your perspective on this when trying to place my piece in the current range. That’s a really good point about signed vs. mumei blades. I was wondering: in general, does a Tanobe sayagaki tend to add noticeable weight to the market value, or is it more about historical and documentary appeal? I’ve come across mixed opinions on how strongly collectors factor it in. Quote
Jacques Posted July 27 Report Posted July 27 Quote As we all know, Shinsa is a competition I fully disagree Quote the last years I’ve noticed a growing interest in Yamato works in general; auction results and forum discussions suggest that the price gap is narrowing, even for Shikkake. Ok. I was thinking more of a difference in the quality of the work than a simple fashion and market story. 1 Quote
DENihontocollector Posted July 27 Author Report Posted July 27 To everyone, I just realized it’s only been about two hours since I opened this thread, and I’m genuinely amazed at how much valuable information has already been shared. A big thank you to everyone who has taken the time to reply and contribute – it’s incredibly helpful and very much appreciated. I’m really looking forward to hearing more insights and learning from the expertise here. This community is fantastic. Quote
Lewis B Posted July 27 Report Posted July 27 2 minutes ago, Jacques said: I fully disagree I wouldn't expect anything less. 1 Quote
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