Genuine?

[Alex A]

At arms fair, found this, looks genuine but know nothing

 

Edit to add, one of those moments when your pretty sure something is genuine but don't know enough to not make an ignorant mistake. Actually been after one for a while but never see them here, especially at local arms fairs. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Alex A]

more

 

 

[Alex A]

Edit

 

[Alex A]

Edit

 

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Quick answer for me is no thank you.

[Alex A]

Thanks Piers, glad i asked. 

[Bugyotsuji]

Some yeses and some noes, Alex. Not surprised you had trouble!

[Alex A]

Its an unusual one for me these Japanese guns, Piers. I don't see enough of them for sale to warrant me buying loads of books and doing loads of research, i would likely ever buy only one anyways.

 

To me it looked a genuine used antique but like i say, just don't know anything about them. Appeared solid enough and looked to have been functional at some point.

 

Takes a keener more knowledgeable eye than what i have. As the old saying goes, if your not sure, ask.

 

Appreciated.

 

May actually give up the quest to own one as its too far out of my comfort zone.

 

 

[Alex A]

Looking at the gun and having more time, its as though the lock plate has been cut short for some reason, maybe off another gun? (just a thought)

[Alex A]

Apologies, I've had to delete the images as i think the seller may well be a member here and not want his sale online.

 

If anyone wants to discuss the gun and images by pm, will be happy to do so.

[Bugyotsuji]

Normally I do not like to comment on things for sale, so in this case I merely said it was not for me. Thank you though for considering the seller, Alex. 

 

When I say 'yes', the back sight reminds me strongly of a type of fantastical gun the Japanese produced, which they called Namban-Ryu, or 'Barbarian style of gunnery'. The problem is that they were wildly decorated in order to look exotic, and I am not sure if any two were even alike. For this reason, I could see elements pointing to a viable matchlock, the side view of the pan for example, but then other decorations which I would not normally associate with Tanegashima matchlocks.

 

Here is a page from Sawada Taira's book illustrating just two examples of the Nanban-Ryu school of gunnery. What exactly do they have in common? How much decoration do you allow, and how wild is ‘genuinely’ wild?

 

 

[Alex A]

I get you, Piers. It could be genuine, just not typical. 

 

We see European pistols that stand out as shall i say "oddball", that's just a way for me to get my head around it. (in the grand scheme of things).

 

I was very tempted, must admit. As in hand, id did appear genuine but knowing little i knew i couldn't pull the trigger on the spot. I will say, it had a certain appeal about it and for the right price may actually be a nice little kind of a display piece, even if it does come with some ???.

 

As always, appreciate you helping out.

 

On a side note. was reading up about these little Japanese pistol type guns. Came across a site that said they were not very well regarded for actual battle use, don't know whether that's true or not.

 

Also, wouldn't usually upload images like that. It was a rare moment. Nothing at the arms fair that appealed and then that appeared in the corner of a display. The gent said he only sold at arms fairs, so imagine my need for quick answers 

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Unfortunately there is a time lag with Tanegashima alerts which arrive in my mailbox two or three days after the original post. Normally I check in here two or three times a day anyway, just to be on the safe side, but this weekend I was run off my feet. Apologies.

 

With no images now it makes it harder to remember what was different! 
 

Was that factoid about battlefield use in an old or modern English language publication, or somewhere else? Matchlock long guns involved clever use of match cord, wound around your left forearm. To use a pistol, however, you need to wrap the cord around your right wrist, and as you extend your arm to fire, hope the string does not come loose for a misfire. On horseback (these pistols were rare and really only available to wealthy Bushi) the cord pull-away problem would be compounded with the movement. There is one famous moment at the Battle of Sekigahara when a knot of mounted Shimazu troops surrounded their lord and wishing to return him home safely, but with honour, charged right through the Tokugawa lines, discharging pistols as they went.

[Alex A]

No need apologise, Piers. It was just in hope that the timing was right. As said, a real unusual moment, sat in a corner of the arms fair on my phone. It does go to show that you never know what you might come across. 

 

There was a little replica on another table, first time I've seen one of those.

 

The gent gave me a card but stated he don't sell privately, so i guess that's that anyways.

 

Good learning curve, none the less.

 

Cheers

 

Ps, will pm you a few pics over of both sides of the gun, as im interested to know a little more.

 

No rush, when you have time.

[Peter Bleed]

This seems to have been an interesting discussion. It was politely presented and edited so I am not sure I have fully understood and followed the discussion. I am also not sure I understand it all.

Still, in collecting Japanese things - swords and guns included, the safest strategy is if avoid anything that is "unusual."  But I have to add in the case of matchlocks, if something looks/seems "Japanese" but is "unusual", I have to ask what else would it be?

[Alex A]

Hi Peter, i will pm you over some pics and you can take a look, let me know your thoughts. (check your pm)

 

Stumbled across it an arms fair. I know nothing but thought it was genuine or at least functional.

 

Though i know nothing, so had to ask.

 

We are at the stage where kind of thinking some cobbling of parts probably been going on in the past.

 

Though i still kind of like it, i just like the smaller Japanese guns.

 

Anyways, take a look and let us know.