Netsuke Central

[John C]

This is probably a dumb question, however..... if a Japanese netsuke craftsman were to move to China, or even a Chinese craftsman trained in Japan, and set up shop and still make beautiful pieces, how would these coming out of China be looked upon by the collecting community? I'm just thinking about quality vs country of origin.

 

John C.

[Bugyotsuji]

That would be true today John, but not so much back in the Edo period when things were a little more clear-cut. 

[PietroParis]

The "chick and egg" thing is indeed modern and mass-produced:

 

[Clark]

14 hours ago, ROKUJURO said:

Thank you Clark!

I got this NETSUKE as a present from a friend in 1969. We had seen it in a shop window in southern Germany every time we went to town, and as I liked it a lot, she eventually bought it for me.

It may well be Chinese, but at that time and with no expertise......it happens!

It was expensive, by the way!

The value of friendship cannot be measured in money. If this piece brings you beautiful memories, then it is worth it to you. However, I must also kindly remind you that the replicas from Chinese workshops are not worth your subsequent investment. This is something I found at a Chinese second-hand market at random, and it is exactly the same as your Kusari. The price is also very high (relative to Chinese consumers). I guess these are mass-produced for export, please make sure to identify them.

[ROKUJURO]

That's surprizing! How did they manage to take photos of my NETSUKE ?  

[zhangshilong]

On 3/18/2026 at 10:49 PM, John C said:

然而，这可能是一个愚蠢的问题……如果一个日本悬坠工匠移居中国，甚至是一个在日本接受培训的中国工匠，开办店铺并仍然制作出精美的作品，那么收藏界会如何看待这些从中国出来的作品呢？我只是在考虑质量与原产国。

 

约翰·C.

Hello, John. I believe the two should not be confused with each other. The Edo period of Japan marked the golden age of netsuke craftsmanship, while China was in the late Ming and early Qing dynasties during the same era. Back then, China also had ornaments made of bone, wood and other materials, such as pendants for scholars' folding fans, clothing accessories, and handheld curios for appreciation.

 

From my perspective, it is impossible to draw a definite conclusion about which country such craftworks as netsuke originated from. Similar artifacts in different regions developed independently and in parallel. I

I am also a carving enthusiast. I prefer to call my works bone carvings rather than netsuke, for my master is a bone carving artisan. What I am doing now is to refine my carving skills and infuse my creations with modern ideas and insights.

 

This is one of my small pieces. Some people may find it unpleasant or even repulsive. It depicts a modern baby lying on the skull of a primitive human, connected by an umbilical cord. I intend to convey that modern humans share the same bloodline with our primitive ancestors, and that humanity has continued to reproduce and thrive through generations.

 

Admittedly, this work may not appeal to everyone. To my mind, whether it is bone carving or netsuke, the essence lies in the inner meaning and cultural heritage. I have always looked down on those who merely copy works and make counterfeits for profit.

t is just that Japanese netsuke gained widespread popularity and public attention. Influenced by this, many Chinese craftsmen in modern times have begun to create works in the style of Japanese netsuke, and even produce counterfeits for sale.

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Going back in time.

Some natural, and some adapted  netsuke from over the centuries.

 

One o’clock is a flattish Corazon seed with two holes drilled for use as a netsuke. (They were also turned into powder flasks for matchlocks.)

 

Three and four o’clock show stones from rivers or sea shore with natural openings in them, found in antiques markets with disintegrating strings attached.

 

At five o’clock is an old, well-used sea shell with drilled hole and string, found at Tenjin San antiques market in Kyoto.

Functional netsuke.

 

Down the middle from 12 to 6 is a root (?) with a natural channel throughout.  Decorative object.

 

At seven o’clock is an inro set hanging from a section of umoregi semi-fossilized peatbog wood. Hole was probably drilled through. This netsuke at least likely fits the Edo Period remit. Inro is wood, the sections carved to look like bamboo.

 

To the left of the root is a wooden hook formed from a branch(?) with original piece of rice straw twine.

 

At nine o’clock is a fishing-net weight, fired clay, cylindrical. A perfect practical netsuke for a fisherman wearing only a fundōshi loincloth.

 

Top left is a clay object with two holes sold to me as Chinese from 700 AD(?). But we do find 2000-year-old flat oval scrapers in Japanese archaeology museums, said to have been for agriculture, with similar two-hole layout. Netsuke origins?

 

[John C]

Very nice display of everyday natural items being used for a utilitarian purpose.

 

John C.

[ROKUJURO]

Authentic but modern:
 

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Interesting process, Jean. Many thanks.

 

The presenter kind of scrambled it, but the rough-cut carving style 一刀彫 ittōbori is pronounced like ‘It - toe- borry’.

 

(= one-blade-carving)

[Bugyotsuji]

We often decribe Netsuke as tactile objects to roll around in the hands, almost like worry beads. (Shades of the steel worry balls of Captain Queeg in the Caine Mutiny.)

 

Just had an original thought! (All clapping gratefully accepted)

These Netsuke of Chinese sages with elongated heads have been explained in one way or another, but last night my daughter handed me a specially-shaped wooden massage pointer that she had bought in Tokyo. As I was pushing it into various acupuncture points in my hands it suddenly struck me that these pointy-headed or other long Netsuke may just have had that very function, for Shiatsu no less, traditional manipulation of pressure points, which would take our understanding a step deeper than that of rolling a Netsuke around in the palm for passive pleasure.

 

Two okimono in background, stag antler Momo Sennin and Bizen yaki Daruma.

Four netsuke, one of which is a silk seal. Whale tooth, ivory and stag antler.

 

[Matsunoki]

🙂

Perfectly feasible. 
 

[Matsunoki]

….but I’m a bit worried about what the big guy at the back is holding up.

[PietroParis]

I suppose a peach of immortality, but definitely suggestive. OTOH, I don't think it is a very old carving. In particular, the surface of the antler is a bit too white (just compare it with the seal on the left, which is definitely antique), and the style looks slightly "off" to me.

 

P.S. my favorite in this picture is the tooth, can we have more views?

Edited August 7 by PietroParis

[PietroParis]

BTW this is my only Fukurokuju. Nothing special, but sometimes it triggers the weird urge (luckily always resisted ) to pick my nose with it.

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Mmm… I like that one Pietro. And for shiatsu too! 

 

As requested, the tooth, a very small Netsuké which I chose for quality of carving rather than age, per se.

a

b

c

d

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Oh, as to the large sage w/peach okimono, agreed concerning age. This one is stunningly large, from a goodly-sized antler base, and the carving is not bad. Quite heavy in the hand, it looks and feels at first like stone, marble perhaps.

[EricMajo]

Pietro — that's a very on-brand occupational hazard for a Fukurokuju owner, no judgment here. I've got one of my own that could serve the exact same wrong purpose: wood, signed, same elongated-head problem.

 

Got me wondering what pulls collectors toward one particular theme rather than netsuke broadly — shishi, monkeys, Shichifukujin, whatever it may be. Monkeys are my personal weakness, for what it's worth.

 

 

 

Netsuke Fukurukuju wood - Supein Nihonto

[ROKUJURO]

Just found this:
 

 

[Matsunoki]

For me that’s a strange video. Focus heavily on modern work (skilled carvers though) with no mention of the 18thC Kyoto masters (Tomotada et al).
The Minko tiger is wonderful (I had 2 but not with a cub) but some of  the others…..hmmmm

But then I’m  very old school.

[ROKUJURO]

Sorry Colin,

they had no video of the old masters.....

[Tsubafan]

On 8/7/2026 at 6:49 PM, Bugyotsuji said:

Mmm… I like that one Pietro. And for shiatsu too! 

 

As requested, the tooth, a very small Netsuké which I chose for quality of carving rather than age, per se.

a

b

c

d

 

Piers, what do you mean by not old?

To me it looks at least early Meiji.

[Bugyotsuji]

14 minutes ago, Tsubafan said:

Piers, what do you mean by not old?

To me it looks at least early Meiji.

Just hedging my bets, Louis. I can see what you are saying though. To me it was the small size and the quality of carving that most attracted me, and to forestall potential criticism from Pietro I was careful how I phrased it! 

[Tsubafan]

7 minutes ago, Bugyotsuji said:

Just hedging my bets, Louis. I can see what you are saying though. To me it was the small size and the quality of carving that most attracted me, and to forestall potential criticism from Pietro I was careful how I phrased it! 

Fully understood and your approach is the best according to me : only quality, material and subject matter. signature does not.

back to your Fukurokuju, the front may look like not that old du to the ink staining of the robe (which could be a later addition to the original piece btw) but the back is telling me a different story and I like it a lot. The size of the himotoshis is also good. I like the aji of the back even if walrus tusk does not have the same rendering as ivory when worn.

 

[PietroParis]

On 8/20/2026 at 10:38 AM, Tsubafan said:

Piers, what do you mean by not old?

To me it looks at least early Meiji.

 

I was referring to the antler piece. Antler darkens with age and this looks too white to be 150 years old, just compare it with the silk seal. Moreover, the style smells vaguely Chinese to me. OTOH, I like the tooth a lot and would have no problem dating it to Meiji or even earlier.

Edited 17 hours ago by PietroParis

[Tsubafan]

1 minute ago, PietroParis said:

 

I was referring to the antler piece. It looks too white to be 150 years old, and the style smells vaguely Chinese to me.

Hi Pietro, I was talking to Piers... but I also agree with your analysis on the antler piece . 

[Tsubafan]

Here is one of my favorite pieces in my collection. Also very small but quite funny.