Dr. John said when he was alive

[Babu]

Dr John Lissenden (Docliss) when he was alive made comment on a mei very similar to this one in image two.

His observations were:

”The mei of Hamano Kaneyuki, the second son of Hamano Shozui and the second master of the Hamano school. illustrated on p.83a-d of Kinko Meikan. While the second kanji could pass (I add, although missing a stroke), the first is quite unlike the much more formal and stylised kanji illustrated, which lacks the florished (joined) D or (P) shaped loop as is shown on your fuchi." 

 

My research in Seskos and Kinko Meikan suggest this flourish as John surmised are a sign of potential Gimei.

I have reference to one mei in ”Toso Kodogu Meiji Taikei" by Wakayama which supports this flourished mei but I did think that later this example was designated as incorrect and removed from examples. For the main reason that the flourish if it were correct would be a kantei point and all other mei would be incorrect.

Can anyone help in this matter to better understand this ? This is for my research at this stage thanks

 

[Nikanoru]

I see a gimei, same as in TKMT, vol.1, p.156, bottom left.

Obviously Kaneyuki/Kenzui and Otsuryūken are put differently, probably Otsuryūken has been added later for “marketing” purposes.

I checked in various references, Nihon Soken Kinko Shi, Zusetsu Toso Kinko Meishu Roku, Kinko Tanko Mei To Kakaku, published before TKMT, and after, Tosogu Machibori Meihin Shusei, Baur collection. All the examples show that the strokes in question do not intersect to form a D/P-shaped symbol. For example, from the latest (pics in old references are basically same everywhere, need to check various collections and auction catalogues):

[Babu]

And yet in wakayama they show an almost identical example for the 2nd generation and it looks good to me so there must have been an accepted variation on his work.. I would assume ? 

[Babu]

For comparison