Please can anyone Help with a few items

[shan]

I have joined and i am listing these 5 Kozuka on this forum as i believe that many heads are better than one and at the sugestion Of Darcy.

I have a few kozuka which i am having difficulty in placing in a period or school of artists.

I would appreciate any help with any of these items ( i only have a little knowledge and we all know how dangerous that can be).

I know its "picking other peoples Brains" and please forgive me,but i havn`t a clue who to attribute these to.

They are for reference

1. Double dragon

2. Hotei under sack?

3. horses (Also have Fuchi Kashira to match)

4. Oni on clouds?

5. Sea Turtles?

 

I know its a long

Many thanks to all who offer a suggestion to help.

Shan

[Brian]

Shan,

Some of these look like fairly generic late Edo/Meiji period punched brass, while a few look a bit better. Can you tell us which are iron and/or other mixed metals besides brass?

 

Brian

 

PS - Edited pics to max 800 px wide so that they show directly without converting to links.

[shan]

Hi Brian,

Nothing is brass in this lot,I have one brass plain WWII Kozuka but that has a very differant feel to it..

I think the turtles are iron with other metals ontop.

The dragon is copper,as is the Hotei kozuka(with guilt traces) the horses are mixed and the Oni i am not sure of, but there are traces of guilt to them all,

I hope this helps

regards

shan

[nagamaki - Franco]

hi, even when it isn't possible to determine a 'specific maker', begin making a study of the subject matter by trying to figure out which of the mainline school styles the piece is attempting to follow. Then begin noting any similarities, but more importantly the differences.

One unfortunate circumstance here is judging from the look of the double dragon kozuka image, and, perhaps some of these other pieces as well, someone has been busy with some sort of tarnish remover, a definite no, no, removing the original dark shakudo patina. So, even if this were an identifiable piece, with the original finish removed a shinsa team would bounce it. Sometimes the finish can be restored.

[shan]

Thanks for that Franco,

They are as I received them sadly,polish and all.

Might I offer a suggestion based on the study technique you have suggested.These are guesses though.

 

The Oni In clouds piece is (to me)somewhat reminiscent of Goto Joshin in its style and execution and I have found in a 2000 Sotheby’s catalogue one of very similar execution but slightly different subject matter,same patina and carving style though..

My Bids are:

The dragon is very reminiscent of Goto style but may well be generic?

The horse kozuka is a Goto school item? but i cannot decide on period.

The Oni is the 3rd Mainline master Goto Joshin.(long shot maybe)

I am struggling to determine when an iron kozuka with Copper decoration & gold and silver overlay would have been made.

The copper Hotei with sack is an early piece its heavy and quite solid feeling maybe 1500`s dated?

 

If any of you have any opinions please feel free to share them.

I am sorry to say i have very little knowledge of the subtlties of shinsa.

Kindest regards

shan

[Brian]

Shan,

Please don't take this as rude, but you have Goto on the brain :lol:

None of these are Goto. Do a search and check out some examples of Goto work. It is the finest and classiest work, and immediately seen for its quality.

Copper or brass, most of these are pressed/punched work, and even the presence of some gilding doesn't change the fact that they are fairly typical and late work. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but none of these are really outstanding works at all. Typical of your usual kozuka used with average mounts. Lacking in the fine nanako, good shakudo and good carving. Mostly punched plate from the back and then assembled, with some gilding added at some point. No real fine use of mixed metals or showing top craftmanship. You need to see some really good kozuka to be able to identify the good ones from the generic ones that are so common.

 

Regards,

Brian

[Bungo]

" You need to see some really good kozuka to be able to identify the good ones from the generic ones that are so common.

 

Regards,

Brian "

 

......................

something like these ?

 

milt

[shan]

Hi Brian,Milt,

Yes,Sorry i guess i am being a bit of an optimist.But i know nothing about Kozuka

I had a look through some auction catologues and saw the "attributed to`s" then info on the attributed artisan and thought they were examples of the work, but as you rightly state they are likley all gimei.

I see what you mean about the craftsmanship,its very beautifully done and shows a skill above anything i have.

I did think that the Oni Kozuka was early and is definatly not pressed and Hotei was carved as well but i have no real experience of Kozuka.

I thank you all again for your always helpful input and will be in contact as soon as i find a real Goto piece .I have learned something here.

Kindest regards

Shan

[Brian]

Don't be disheartened Shan, remember that maybe 60-70% of kozuka used in standard mountings are like yours, and only a very small % are great works. They are still genuine and real.

Yes, there are some really great examples of kozuka out there, and many not Goto school either. None of Milt's are Goto (I think?) and yet are very nice indeed. Don't focus too much on one school unless you plan on specializing in Goto as a theme.

 

Brian

[jrs]

I know nothing about fittings (I am a blade guy. Haven't graduated to fittings yet) so I really cant add anything here but reading the post did leave me with a question. I din't think the Goto worked in iron. Is this true? Also, as long as I am asking questions, what does it mean when somebody says that "bones" can be seen on a tsuba?

 

James

[shan]

Hi James, :D

I do not know the answers to these questions but i sugest you post a message to find out.

The bones of a tsuba are what is evident when the steel has been folded and worked i believe.

I have no idea if goto worked in Iron But they were primarily soft metal workers who followed strict patterns of production based on approved themes.I think in the later 1700`s a member "broke away" from tradition but only in so far as the themes.

Ask the question to the forum,they are very knowledgable in matters Tosogu.

regards

shan

[Markus]

4. Oni on clouds?

 

FYI: This kozuka depicts the fleeing oni Shôshitsuki (æ·ç–¾é¬¼) after he had stolen the

ash of the cremated Buddha. Often, the god Idaten (韋駄天) is depicted too, pursuing

the oni even into the clouds.

[shan]

Hi Marcus,

Thats interesting.

Its think it nice to know the traditional folktales that inspire these artists.

Thankyou very much for the info.Much appreciated.

Regards

shan