Netsuke evaluation

[yamabiru]

My friend is selling these netsuke and needs to know what you all think.

Is it possible to tell from pics if they’re ivory?

And if possible approximate value.

I’m not looking for exact figures but close assumptions.

They were purchased in NY about 30 years ago and not cheaply he said.

Guesses are welcome!

Any info greatly appreciated!

Thank you!

[Frank B]

These are all modern carvings, likely made in the mid to late 20th century for the tourist market.

[yamabiru]

Ok thanks, when you say tourist market, what do you mean?

[Frank B]

There were innumerable "netsuke" made as merely trinkets.

[Guest]

Good afternoon Yamabiru san,

 

One very basic clue is to look at the "Himotoshi" holes.

 

On pre - modern Netsuke, which were carved for use, not display, if they have carved holes, and not exploiting a natural feature of the object, then one hole is usually larger than the other, to accommodate the Himo cord, from which the various forms of Sagemono could be hung.

 

As with all things, there are exceptions...........

 

Also, I was told that many ivory Netsuke were carved in China, for export from Canton, to Japan, to cater for the burgeoning tourist trade during the late Meiji / early Taisho era.

[Tanto54]

Dear Yamabiru-san,

 

I agree with the other comments above and will add the following.  With the current view towards modern ivory carvings (and to a large extent even antique ivory carvings), these kinds of modern netsuke have lost considerable value (even if they are "Grandfathered in" under the law by being older than the threshold date required).  Good, antique, collectible netsuke are a lot like great nihonto and can go for thousands of dollars (and even hundreds of thousands for rare pieces).  However, the type of netsuke that you have shown are modern tourist pieces that used to sell in tourist shops and jewelry stores for around $300 - $800, but they are now readily available for about $100 on the internet (and are a lot more like the modern "Samurai Swords" that are sold in some knife shops in some countries).

 

Unlike collectible, antique netsuke, the signatures on these do not matter, so no need to try to track down the artist for each piece.  There are some modern netsuke carvers who are very collectible (e.g., Ford Hallam's brother Clive Hallam), but your friend's netsuke aren't by any of the good netsuke artists.

 

To identify elephant ivory, you should look for Schreger Lines which appears as intersecting arches or "cross-hatchng" in the ivory (see picture below).  These lines may only show up in certain places on the piece.  Other "ivory" (e.g., walrus tusks, mammoth ivory, antler, etc.) may appear like elephant ivory but generally will not have Schreger Lines.  There are lots of fake netsuke made of resin (some are even very old), so some collectors use the "hot needle test".  I don't recommend that test, but if the netsuke is low quality and probably fake, then there is little harm... Use a lighter to heat up a needle to red hot and touch it on an inconspicuous part of the netsuke (e.g., inside the himotoshi or rope hole) - if it melts, it's plastic.

 

Sorry to say it, but I think that your friend would be lucky to get $100-200 for each piece today.

 

[yamabiru]

Thank you all so much for your thoughtful and educated replies!

I greatly appreciate the time you took to do so.

I’m very happy to learn from you all and hope to have more questions for you in the near future.

Thanks again!

[Billy]

May I please have an evaluation of my netsuke ?

[Billy]

I assume since my holes are the same size , I have a trinket as well ?

[Bugyotsuji]

Hi Billy, yes, but not necessarily just because the holes are the same size.
Where to start? Someone has quickly created a Netsuke-like object, hoping for a sale, but the all-round quality is completely missing for a ‘genuine’ old Netsuke. 

[Billy]

Okay thank you , I had no idea ? AI lead me to believe I had something special .

[Tyler stone]

I picked up this netsuke in a safe on a yacht owned by a famous person. Wondering if I could get more info on this figure? Who signed it? Age? Thanks in advance. I have 25 more figures from the same safe this one was in. 

[Matsunoki]

Tyler, sorry but this is an imitation probably made in China. Modern work. The signature is there to deceive.

[Tyler stone]

Thank you for your fast response. It’s hard to believe that this figure is not authentic. Could you look at one more of the figures from the same collection please. The boat that these came out of was worth multi millions. The owner of the safe was very well off. To have fakes just seems wrong. I have done the hot needle trick and no damage to the figure  I have tried to find a  appraisal person in the California area that knows netsuke but no luck so far  your help has been very  appreciated  

[Matsunoki]

Sorry, 100% fake. I’ve been into netsuke for 40 years as dealer and collector….sad to say the market is flooded with these pieces. The hot needle test will only tell you if it’s resin, it won’t tell you anything else. Many of these fakes are carved in ivory and bone. 

[Bugyotsuji]

Sadly, Colin is correct. The rich are not always wise. I hate to think what your yacht owner paid.

Unfortunately these NLO are often made of real ivory, feeding the illegal ivory market. 
 

 

[Matsunoki]

@Tyler stone ….compare yours to this genuine example of the same subject by Okatori from  the Kyoto school. This one sold at Bonhams for over £6000 nine years ago. The difference in subtlety and carving quality should be apparent. I hope you did not pay a lot for these ……they are next to worthless. Were you misled by a dealer?…because I’d be happy to try and help you get your money back. 

[Tyler stone]

Lucky for me I did not pay anything. The boat owner past away named Jack McCoy the man that invented “The Last Contest” the most famous radio talk show Comercial in the 70’s. His boat was left in Newport Beach and the city took possession. I was the guy that removed the boat and cleaned it out. In the boat was a hidden safe and 25 netsuke figures plus a Cartier watch and some Rolex watches I have already sold for too dollars. The yacht was built custom at a cost of 7 million. You would think the owner would know real from fake. I have seen almost the same figures in some auction results and in books looking almost exactly the same carving  is there some place I can send these to be looked at to get a final closure  thanks for helping with this mystery 

[John C]

Tyler:

It's possible that not all the netsuke are fake. Auction houses get it wrong all of the time, where many people with means tend to shop.

Did the original owner have any heirs?

 

John C.

[Tyler stone]

No family member. The city of Newport Beach had a lien on the boat. All assets inside the boat where passed on to me free of lien. Is there anyone in Los Angeles that I could take my 25 piece to and verify if real or fake? 

[John C]

You could try contacting Sue Romaine from the International Netsuke Society. She is listed as a contact on this page for Los Angeles.

https://www.netsuke.org/netsuke-society-contacts

 

John C.

[Tyler stone]

Thanks. Really nice of you to take the time and help me.