Kodogu Bako

[1kinko]

Hi, I'm new to posting on the forum.  I'm an amateur tsubashi and kodogu collector.

Most fuchi bako or fuchigashira bako I see today use elastic to secure
the kodogu to a thin piece of wood that is covered with chirimen silk
(or synthetic). Since elastic is a pretty recent innovation, I assume
that pre-1940 bako (if they existed) held the kodogu in place in
recesses or cut-outs in a thin piece of chirimen silk covered wood.  I
have some such bako and the recesses are about 1 cm deep, or deep
enough to come up half way on the nakagoana of fuchi when inserted
sideways.  Danny Massey has suggested that such boxes are called
otoshi bako.

I am attempting to upgrade my kodogu collection and replace boxes with
elastic with otoshi bako but I’m having hard time finding the chiramen
silk that will stretch enough to allow a fuchi to be inserted
sideways.  I have ordered and received a number of old chirimen silk
furoshiki, but in my hands, this silk seems to be too thick and stiff
to stretch sufficiently.  I have read that there are several kinds of
chairmen (hitokoshi, yuzen, kinsha, rinzu, and oni) and I understand
that silks are sold according to weight and range from about 5 to 30
momme (or 18.5 to 31.7 oz), but I do not know how to order silk of the
weight or kind used in kodogu bako.

So, I am hoping that someone might 1) confirm the correct name for bako
with recesses, 2) know what pre-1940’s boxes looked like, 3) know what
weight of silk I should order, 4) suggest a possible vendor, or 5)
provide a link to someone who does know this admittedly esoteric
stuff. Any information will be appreciated and I thank you in advance
for even reading this post!

 

 

[Geraint]

Dear Daryl.

 

Welcome to NMB, please add your name to your posts.  Have a look here, http://followingtheironbrush.org/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=736&p=6907#p6907  I think it's what you need.

 

All the best.

[1kinko]

Thanks for the welcome and reply, but Ford's post does not address my questions: 1) what are these bako called (as opposed to those with elastic)?; 2) what weight and weave of chiramin silk should I order?  I need 1 in order to accomplish 2.  None of the bako with recesses that I own use 2 pieces of fabric like Ford used.  That's the point of using chiramin silk- it stretches.  The question I'm trying to answer is what is the exact name and weight of the silk that has historically been used. I hope this is clear now.  Thanks.

[Guido]

1. 落箱 (otoshibako) is the correct term.

2. I use this fabric: https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/B012NCWTL0/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Btw, it's chirimen 縮緬 and hako 箱 - the "H" only becomes a "B" when it follows a vowel in a composite word.

[1kinko]

Thank you Guido! It has been surprisingly difficult to get this information, but I've finally come to the right place.

[rkg]

Hi,

 

It looks like some of the questions were already answered...  What this stuff "used" to look like is an interesting question - for the most part this whole box thing is really pretty recent - they used to keep tsuba/kodogu in folded paper fukuro - I've seen examples of early edo to as late as taisho period pieces that were stored/presented in this manner.

 

Please post the details if you find somebody who actually knows how to do these otoshi the way that the Japanese do - I've fiddled with making otoshi in the past, and have generally used some kind of kimono silk for the ones I did. 

 

Best,

rkg

(Richard George)

[1kinko]

I certainly will.  I'm still seeking the weight of the chirimen to use for fuchigashira since the fuchi requires the most stretch.  For kozuka, and tsuba, the 1960 era furoshiki weight chirimen silk works fine.  Several years ago, I bought a roll of cream chirimen and this year I dyed it purple.  I looked fine until I streched it, but then I discovered the weft was made of synthetic and did not take the dye.  I use 2 layers of thin basswood for the base material.  I tried balsa but, in my hands, it bends rather than cuts precisely.