I find this very disturbing

[Bungo]

" The authors tend to illustrate works that have not been published before, which is fine, but many of these books are published so that the author or his representative can SELL many of the pieces illustrated. This is fine as that should be the prerogative of the owner. BUT many of these fittings are not as described. they are either falsely attributed, not of the age stated, poor examples, or are of contemporary make. The most notorious work to have all these reprehensible ingredients is the ignominious HIGO KINKO TAIKAN published in 1964 by the N.B.T.H.K. This work has most of the famous Higo tsuba included as well as pieces never published before. It also has many pieces that are not even slightly what they are said to be plus many pieces that were made in Higo style at the time of the publication! In fact the artist who made them has pointed out which ones he made, which was a considerable number. Many of the lesser examples and the imitations (they were not owned by the man who made them) were put in this work to sell them, and now they are spread through many collections and are legitimized by having been published in this book.

 

This type of book places the uninitiated student and collector at a great disadvantage for the student thinks that what he sees illustrated in books such as this will advance his knowledge."

 

 

taken from http://www.nihontokanjipages.com/tosogu.com/

 

esp. the NBTHK part.

 

milt

[Aloof Pegasus]

The kind of gratuitous self promotion discussed in the article is not unique to Nihonto. A similar situation has existed with carpet study for a very long time. And very often the "names" were dreamt up by dealers to keep collectors happy- or as a kind of shorthand for the trade. They do not predate the mid 19th c when the first Europeans started to ship goods back to Europe and America.

 

In recent years (with rugs) the trend has been to avoid attribution to a specific tribe/clan. Pieces are judged in terms of wool quality and dye saturation and control of the medium/or "charming mistakes".

 

Are there similarities here. I'm not really qualified to judge.

[Guest reinhard]

".... In fact the artist who made them has pointed out which ones he made,...."

 

So what's the problem?

 

Do you really want to bash the N.B.T.H.K. for a book published in their name 44 years ago, and why? Or is this just about undermining the reputation of an organisation, accused of spoiling fun and deals?

 

reinhard

[Bungo]

Bob Haynes said that........

I am too ignorant to say that kind of thing, I am just a " hobbyist" collector, you see.

As to " undermining " the NBTHK, geez, I don't think I am that " knowledgeable " yet , nor my hubris as tall as Mt. Fuji.

Just passing on something I read that may be of interest to tsuba collectors.......... so if I offended your sensibility or shaken your trust in the organisation. Quoting Steve Martin " well, excuseeeeeee meeeeeee, I am just a wild and crazy guy "

 

Milt

[Guest reinhard]

I've read the whole thread on that forum and knew your post was citing Mr.Haynes. I just wondered (or not) why you picked this excerpt and stressed the N.B.T.H.K. part in it?

 

reinhard

[Bungo]

" This type of book places the uninitiated student and collector at a great disadvantage for the student thinks that what he sees illustrated in books such as this will advance his knowledge. He will compare pieces he holds in his hand to those in such a work and take for granted that the text and illustration are legitimate. Unfortunately a work such as this, and many others like it, will not advance the knowledge of the student, but will give him false information that will lead him away from the valid study he seeks. Be very careful of all the books used to study sword fittings these days. "

 

This ought to answer your question, again I am quoting Mr. Haynes.

As to why NBTHK was specifically mentioned , well they did publish the book ........

sort of like our Condi mentioned the smoking gun in the form of a mushroom cloud. Being the national security advisor at that time, we tend to believe the " authority " , but of course we know better now, you think ?

 

milt

[Guest reinhard]

" This type of book places the uninitiated student and collector at a great disadvantage..."

 

The "uninitiated student"?. Now "initiation" is not exactly what I'm looking for. I don't like the religious (painful?) component in it.

 

"..for the student thinks that what he sees illustrated in books such as this will advance his knowledge..."

 

Beware!!! For it does not come from HIM.

 

"He will compare pieces he holds in his hand to those in such a work and take for granted that the text and illustration are legitimate. Unfortunately a work such as this, and many others like it, will not advance the knowledge of the student, but will give him false information that will lead him away from the valid study he seeks. Be very careful of all the books used to study sword fittings these days. "

 

For "the student" is a silly bugger, unable to judge for himself, and better inhales the words of the great master of all knowlege.

 

"This ought to answer your question, again I am quoting Mr. Haynes.

As to why NBTHK was specifically mentioned , well they did publish the book ........"

 

44 years ago (stressing the word: published)

 

"sort of like our Condi mentioned the smoking gun in the form of a mushroom cloud. Being the national security advisor at that time, we tend to believe the " authority " , but of course we know better now, you think ?"

 

Since the mighty dollar is going down the drain, the rest of the world doesn't care much anyway. But that's not what I'm up to. Let's keep the subject out of religious believes. No matter if we call them N.B.T.H.K. or Robert Haynes. O.K.?

 

reinhard

[Bungo]

chill, dude

 

 

milt

[Guest reinhard]

Bad times for chilling anyway, but in this point you're right.

 

reinhard

[Bungo]

of course I am right..............

anyway, back to eye candy.

I'm going to post some pics under " nanako, before or after " thread.

Don't think it's a match but............ worth your while to take a look see

 

peace

 

milt

[remzy]

First, i am a nooblet.

 

Second, this kind of "false publications" might be a serious problem for someone "investing" into tsuba and those looking to make a profit but for the others that appreciate them for what they are (aesthetical art objects), i see no problems as long as they are aware they are buying modern made work of art.

Good art is good art.... after all, a repro of the mona lisa can possibly fetch a hefty sum.

 

Id like to precise that i didnt see the formentioned tsuba and only speak of the situation "at large".

[Guest reinhard]

aftermath:

 

Recently I came across an interesting publication:

 

"NLY FITTINGS", published by "Sidney L. Moss Ltd." in 1996. The author is Mr.Douglas K.Wright, mainly assisted by Mr.Haynes, who also wrote the introduction.

 

This catalogue, showing an old British collection, is basically doing what Mr.Haynes is reproaching the "ignominious Higo Kinko Taikan" with, and worse. Depicting some doubtful and even false "big-name" Tosogu without clearly saying so, it is the perfect source for confusion in the mind of "the student".

Mr.Haynes was cautious enough to state: "...One should view this collection in the light of the days in which it was formed and not by the new standards of our day." Unfortunately you don't find much of this attitude in the descriptions later. "The student" associating Umetada Myoju, Yokoya Somin III., Goto Ichijo, Kano Natsuo and others with some of the objects shown under their names will suffer serious damage.

But what really made my day: In the bibliography I found the most detestable "Higo Kinko Taikan". What a laugh.

 

There is a German proverb, which can be freely translated as: Throwing stones is a bad idea for someone sitting in a house of glass.

 

reinhard (chilled again)

[Bungo]

let me get this straight......

1. let's not raise any doubts as long as the books/info are disseminated by an " authority " ( dare I mention NBTHK ? )

2. Let the collectors/students read all the available texts and treat them as gospel since they are published and must be true.

3. To really learn to appreciate arts, one must go to the country of origin and be a student/disciple of a known authority, and MUST NOT ask questions ( as that may insult the Sensei ), anything less is a waste of time.

 

geez, what the Fu$%# are we doing here wasting time and achieving nothing ? afterall not all of us aspiring students can afford the " tuition " of a " private " tutor in the land of the gods....... wait, we can, trust the books, ask no fu%$#ing questions.

 

Now i get it !!

p.s. and the Earth is flat ( Koran ), we are all descended from Adam und Eve ( Book of Genesis )and I sure ain't no freak*%$# ape coming out of Africa ( the Concept of Intelligent Design )

 

 

Milt the enlighened one

[Guest reinhard]

Chill Dude.

 

reinhard

[Bungo]

Bad times for chilling anyway, but in this point you're right.

p.s. only the chilling part

milt