Tsuba ID - extra pics

[Goldy]

G'day all,

 

Before I go any further please let me admit that I know very little to nothing about tsuba (being a blade person) and if I had the reference books then I would hit them. I'm trying to find out a little about the tsuba below, ie; whether it is authentic or not, if so then whatever other info I can gather. If anyone knows of similar examples could they point me to them?

 

 

 

 

Extra info: It came with a shinto sword I purchased a while ago, but really does not look or feel like the original fitting, my first guess was that it may have been a cheap addition to the sword, but who knows. The rust patina seems to match the nakago of the blade, but maybe this is wishful thinking. I bought the sword for the blade and not the fittings.

 

I would have posted this on Mr. Turner's Tosogu site but it seems to have a bug at the moment and at his request I didn't use it.

 

Many thanks for any help, I hope I'm not wasting anyones time.

 

Just took a couple more pics - quite a large crack (flaw?) visible but doesn't affect the circular shape.

 

 

 

 

Cheers,

[Rich S]

Don't know if it is original to the koshirae or not. Likely not, few tsuba

are these days. I've seen the design before, but don't recall the

school. If it was my sword, I'd look around for a better tsuba.

And don't feel guilty about switching tsuba. As I said, most aren't

original to the koshirae anyway having been switched by Japanese and

overseas collectors. Also, it was rather common for samurai and

merchants, etc who could carry swords to have different sets of

fittings for various occasions. Just one old guys opinion, others

may differ.

 

Rich S

[Goldy]

Thanks Richard,

 

I'll need to do some homework on the period and province to find a decent match. I was starting to wonder if the engraving ie; circles, could possibly done by hand but then I look at some tsuba and marvel at the workmanship.

 

It is definitely made of two pieces as I can see the join when looking inside the nakago-ana.

 

Thanks again for any help,

[Rich S]

Craig -

 

If you can see a fold in the tsuba (assuming it is iron tsuba and not

a sanmai kinko), then it could well be an early tsuba. Maybe something

to keep around, but I'd still think about finding something with a little

more design/flare/etc to it for my blade.

 

Rich S

[Jez]

Hi Craig,

 

Don't know if this is any help but came across this http://www.japanesesword.com/Images/Swo ... tsuba8.htm and it looks very similar.

 

Described as:

Shoami School Katana tsuba (1600s)

Width: 8.0cm

Height: 8.0cm

Thickness: 0.5cm

 

Jez

[Ford Hallam]

Hi Craig,

 

the detail you describe as a join, inside the nakago ana, intrigues me. Would it be possible to post a close up of that?

 

cheers, Ford

[Goldy]

Hi again,

 

I'm picking up a new macro lens for my camera today, first thing I'll do is get some close up shots.

 

Its definitely iron and heavy as hell.

 

Jez, thanks for the link, yes - very similar and the dimensions too. Mine is 78mm (height and width) and 5mm thick at the rim. The period would suit the sword it came with.

 

I'll get back to y'all a little later with some close ups.

 

Cheers and thanks,

[Goldy]

Hi Ford,

 

The pics are below. It looks to me like two pieces of metal sandwiched together, I'm assuming forge welded. Some rusting has occured and it looks a little messy but the join is still visible.

 

 

 

 

Also found this link to one very similar (but in better nick): http://www.ricecracker.com/japanese_swords_tsuba/tsubapage10.htm

 

Cheers,

[Ford Hallam]

Morning Craig,

 

thanks for those extra images, nicely clear too. I think there is no question, this is a genuine piece. I was concerned that the seam might have been a casting flange. There are one or two spots on the tsuba that might also have been casting flaws but can also be seen as severe corrosion. The nakago ana is almost too neatly shaped considering it's apparent age, so it would seem that it has been reshaped to fit the present blade and as such no sekigane were needed either.

 

It's possible the concentric lines were produced on some sort of pole lathe. We know that wooden lacquer-work blanks were made this way in the past and there is no major reason why this method could not have been employed here. I do think some sort of jig was used either way.

 

The example that Jez has posted a link to is quite good and is very similar but I don't think this one is Shoami. The concentric lines do make me think of Kagamishi tsuba but as this is not bronze I'd merely suggest a bit of influence from that source.

 

To me this looks like a fairly standard Katchushi tsuba dating from perhaps the late Momoyama period. It has suffered badly but may benifit from a lot of tlc. It's a decent and honest piece IMO.

 

regards, Ford

[Goldy]

Thanks for the info Ford, very much appreciated.

 

If I may pick your brains a little more. Knowing the do's and don't with swords and cleaning etc, what if anything should I do to help preserve this tsuba? My first gues would be a very light oiling and leave it be (I'm very wary about trying to clean stuff).

 

It is normally kept mounted with the rest of the koshirae (mounted on a tsunagi and not the sword), in a locked Pelican case. When I finish my home made katanakake it will go on display.

 

On Mr. Turner's advice I'll be posting some pics etc on the Tosogu blog page if anyone wants to follow what else may be said.

 

Thanks all for your help, looking forward to anyone's advice on preservation.

 

Cheers,

[Bungo]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Large-Shoami-School ... dZViewItem

 

 

another similar one.

 

milt

[Mantis dude]

Ford, et all,

 

I am curious about the forging of this piece. It seems 2 pieces sandwiched together with a weld that didn't take very well. Not like the usual s shaped sandwich, the welds look like they go all the way around in a straight line. I am curious as to why this would be done this way. I don't think I ever saw anything like this. I have seen seams etc, on the side but not split open to this degree and I have seen seams and own a tsuba with a partial seam on the plate ie, part of the iron was folded back as in an s curve. Something to me just isn't adding up as to why it would be done this way? They wanted to make a thicker tsuba? The decoration is relatively simple so I don't see a need to save the plate. The iron, does look real but the seam still just doesn't seem to add up. I will go back and look at it some more, but I can't help but thinking it was cast, or perhaps a construction experiment. Any more comments. I might add, just because it's cast doesn't mean its not old. Casting is an old process. Just curious and can help but keep on asking the question "why was it done this way?" Given that the Japanese were usually very purposeful, it just isn't making sense to me yet, so maybe someone can?

[Goldy]

G'day Guys,

 

Seeing you talk about tsuba construction has made me curious. Is there a beginners book/source of info on tsuba construction or something similar you may be able to point me to?

 

This is getting more interesting by the minute for me, I might have to start paying more attention to tsuba etc as well as blades...

 

Cheers,