Found another similar Tsuba

[lotus]

I was admiring our own David Stiles's fine collection of Tsuba. Very, very nice indeed. I then noticed his Awa Shoami piece had the same motif as one listed on flea bay. Thought I would post both of them up here because the similarity is interesting. David's Tsuba is so much nicer, of course! David's is an Awa Shoami school piece. The ebay one claims to be a Heinjyo piece. Thoughts?

 

Pat R.

[Soshin]

Hi Pat R.,

 

Thanks for posting this. I have been coming across once in a while the same design of my tsuba in very inferior versions. All of these inferior versions like the one in your post appear to be younger in terms of age but often not in as good of a condition as mine despite being younger. This example you post like the previous one I found is likely made in the late Edo Period or early Meiji Period. Some of the inferior examples like the one your posted is likely shiiremono (仕入物) and not work of Heinjyo school. Here is a link to eBay where I found another poor example of the design: http://www.ebay.com/itm/380481830919?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649. There is one more listed in the original NMB topic I started about this tsuba: http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13617&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=0.

I also find it interesting that all of the lower quality copies lack the very specific pattern of five round chisel marks on each side around the nakago-ana of my tsuba. I am thinking this was a form of kakushi-tagane that you often hear about. This was used by the Hirata (平田) school in Higo Province but I am hypothesising that this was also done by the Hirata (平田) school in Awa Province. Hirata is the family associated with the Awa Shoami school. These two families were just branches of the same family once based in Kyoto before the Edo Period. In the end I think it would be interesting to submit my tsuba to NBTHK or NTHK shinsa. Here is a link to my website for a complete write up of what I know about this tsuba: http://dastiles1.wix.com/reflections-#!Edo%20Period%20Tsuba%20Part%201%20/c211q. It is the second tsuba on the webpage.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Soshin]

Hi Everyone,

 

I found this tsuba listed by Zen Gallery on eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/221186030694?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649. I wanted to post it here for discussion as the auction has ended. The inlay, patina, and design of the sukashi isn't nearly as good as my tsuba of the same design. The shape of the upper part of the nakago-ana is strange. From looking at photos of the inside of the nakago-ana it looks like the plate and open work was made from cast iron. The chisel marks around the nakago-ana look strange and almost like they were intending to reproduce the marks around the nakago-ana of my tsuba. Comments and questions welcome.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Curran]

I saw that auction and mistakenly thought it yours at the time.

[Soshin]

Hi Curran,

 

I have noticed that this open work design is a fairly popular one during the late Edo Period. I was surprised the eBay tsuba went so high in bids ending at a price just a little bit more then half the price I paid for my tsuba.

Comparing the workmenship alone of this tsuba to mine is like comparing chalk and cheese. Would be interesting to submit my tsuba for shinsa as I do known that Awa Shoami school did often work using popular designs and were renowned for their carved inlay work for which my tsuba displays much of that technique.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Thierry BERNARD]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6023-Japanese-S ... true&rt=nc

[Soshin]

Hi Thierry B.,

 

Yes this was the eBay tsuba we were referring to that I placed a link to in my original post to update this topic. Would you care to comment more? The tsuba at Loin's Gate Armory discussed in my original topic linked above show some age compared to the one that recently sold on eBay. This is just my impession looking at the photos of the two tsuba with the same design. From my research I think the design likely dates from the mid Edo Period circa 1700s and was copied frequently during late Edo Period and the early Meiji Period.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[lotus]

David -

 

Yes, I noticed that ebay one as well. It has a lot of pitting on the rim and the top part of the seppa dai is just terribly executed if you ask me. Yours has a nicer shape and flows nicely into the flower petals. If you paid half of what the ebay one went for, I would say you got a very good deal.

[Soshin]

If you paid half of what the ebay one went for, I would say you got a very good deal.

 

Hi Patrick R.,

 

Thanks for the reply. Good observation in regards to the upper part of the seppa-dai. I was just saying in the earlier post that for my tsuba I paid almost twice what the one sold for on eBay. Check Grey D. website if you want to know how much I paid for mine as I purchased it from him. I will PM you shortly about another topic.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[lotus]

Well then, that makes more sense. I read that wrong.