Question...

[Kam]

Yes Chris you are right someone does have to win the lottery. . . why cant it be me , I have seen a number of "gems" that had been sitting in some widows closet for the last 50 years. As for elitism once again yes you are right any circle of enthusiasts will have it's elite (justified or not) unfortunately our hobby has many, yet it has very few humble scholars.

 

Kam

[cabowen]

As for elitism once again yes you are right any circle of enthusiasts will have it's elite (justified or not) unfortunately our hobby has many, yet it has very few humble scholars.

 

Kam

 

Very few scholars of any sort unfortunately....

[Kam]

Very few scholars of any sort unfortunately....

 

[runagmc]

What I found though, was that many who were portrayed as knowledgeable (either by themselves or by others) weren't really keeping their vast knowledge a secret to cut down on the competition but were simply keeping their vast lack of knowledge a secret....

First off, great quote Chris...

 

Second, Keith, if not for media, what do you think will spark the interest? I'd say media is responsible for a large part of the interest in weapons collecting in general. Modern media is what initially sparked my interest in "Samurai swords", which eventually led to a serious interest in learning all I could about the subject. I'm also an artist and craftsman myself, so that played a big part in being able to appreciate the craftsmanship and aesthetic beauty of Nihonto (and other traditional Japanese arts). Also... many people say martial arts sparked their interest in Nihonto, but what sparked their interest in martial arts? Media, maybe? :D

[Tcat]

Are we really hoping to find new collectors as a result of popular (and totally nonfactual) media?

I was assuming that "we" were hoping to find new collectors of any kind, as long as they genuinely show interest in, value and help preserve Nihonto. Are you saying this would be attracting the wrong kind of people? I think this is an example of the elitism mentioned earlier showing its head. If it is the death of the pursuit which we worry about (though I am not worried..), remember that beggars can't be choosers. I also think fantasy and legend have their place in inspiring interest in "real life" pursuits. Either way and whether you like it or not, there are for sure many people interested in this area originally primarily due to fictional media. The only thing that matters is that they participate in the appreciation and preservation of nihonto and related arts. Do you disagree?

 

I think the reasons for an interest being held are dynamic, that is to say what captures someones attention initially may not be the same thing that holds that attention for years and years. The important thing is how many new people can be properly introduced to the world of Nihonto, and while being new not be put off, rather spend enough time in this field to find their own particular area of fascination and concentrate on it. If we value this hobby, we really should be doing all we can to not push people away.

 

What sort of collector is going to arise from the Ninja fringe dwellers and ludicrous film admirers, or the game console addicts.

Modern ones. For example, I would wager that there are quite a few Nihonto collectors who owe a lot of their interest to an obsession with the concept of the light saber or a romanticized samurai drama. Even animated ones, you better believe it! I predict there will be far more where they came from in the future.

 

Sure, those things can be fun to watch or play, but as a medium for motivating someone to collect nihonto or less likely tsuba, I have to say I have serious doubts.

seriously Keith, how many people get interested in tsuba through a path otherwise unrelated to the sword? I believe that an appreciation for tsuba comes only after an initial interest in nihonto in general (primarily fully mounted swords), for at least 99.99% of the time anyway. This hobby is an acquired taste, it takes time for an interest in tsuba as a field of their own to grow (and even for blades themselves; consider most newbies would not even think about buying a "bare blade in shirasaya", after all, its not even a sword). As for motivation for collecting I think that there must be many different factors that all come together to make a person say to themselves, yes, I'm really going to buy myself a Japanese sword because I really want to own one. That is not a decision to take lightly and I think that the true motivation for it is multifaceted and nuanced.

 

How many people I wonder became interested as a result of watching 'The Last Samurai', or 'Red sun' or 'Ran' to name but a few?

Many, for sure, but not JUST because they watched one or two of these films. My point is that they play an important role in the process of 'converting' an individual towards a true interest in nihonto.

 

How many people ran out to buy books on nihonto after playing 'Red Ninja' or 'Tenchu'?

Rushing out to buy a library on Japanese swords and having one's level of interest increase are not the same thing. What I meant by my original post was that there are a great deal more potentially influencing factors 'out there' in the media which could inspire an interest in nihonto than there used to be; there are so many more media platforms than there used to be, and they are so much more advanced, interactive and pervasive than they used to be. Of course they form a greater part of the routs of inspiration for interest in this field now than they did before, in the future even more so.

Would be interested to hear your thoughts.

 

many people say martial arts sparked their interest in Nihonto, but what sparked their interest in martial arts? Media, maybe?

[sanjuro]

OK.. lets get rid of the elitism tag you just hung around my neck. None of what I said was elitist in intent. If the statement of a point of view is interpreted as elitist then whats the point of this conversation? I might say you are a mass media elitist and devalue your input in a like manner.

 

I do not doubt for a moment that popular media fiction and yes, even games play some part in capturing attention and perhaps ultimately, interest in nihonto. They are not however realistic, and surely are not expected to be. They are entertainment. Capturing attention is however not what motivates someone to become a collector, at least not in isolation.

It takes forums such as the NMB and other avenues of information and interaction with people who collect or have the knowledge, to nurture that initial attention so that it becomes first a curiosity and then perhaps a deeper interest. Nothing does this ideally like the access to swords themselves, though this is by no means easy for the beginner. More importantly access to people who enjoy talking about their hobby. For all the value that mass media may have in access to information, there is still no substitute for contact with like minded people to fire someone's imagination. Passion is infectious. Nor is this alone enough. What makes a collector is a variety of inputs over a longish period of time. Those inputs may be legion or few but the compound influence they have is invaluable.

Like you I came to nihonto through the martial arts, and I think there are many who have had that same beginning. In my case that interest in martial arts was not attributable to the media. Yet still there are just as many if not more collectors who have come to nihonto via a variety of other avenues and for a variety reasons. There is not one single source one can point to, and say 'this is the primary source of nihonto collectors'. Its OK to say that the mass and/or popular media will be the source of new collectors, and this may be so to an extent. To place faith in that source alone is however a mistake. Nothing operates in isolation, and the other avenues must also be nurtured, since they too contribute greatly to our ranks.

[Tcat]

lets get rid of the elitism tag you just hung around my neck. None of what I said was elitist in intent. If the statement of a point of view is interpreted as elitist then whats the point of this conversation?

Woah there! :lol: You did say: "Are we really hoping to find new collectors as a result of popular (and totally nonfactual) media?" Which sounds pretty scornful of 'nonfactual media' (the clue is the 'totally'), then followed by "What sort of collector.....Ninja fringe dwellers...ludicrous film admirers...game console addicts" (clues are 'sort of collector', 'fringe dwellers', ludicrous and addicts). I think you hung the elitism tag around your own neck by rushing straight to questioning collectors' paths to the field rather than their devotion to it. Anyway...

 

I might say you are a mass media elitist and devalue your input in a like manner.

I am not sure how this would devalue my input, but it wouldn't bother me because I am somewhat of a mass media elitist, I am very picky about what I choose to absorb from the mass media! (Try to be anyway.)

 

I do not doubt for a moment that popular media fiction and yes, even games play some part in capturing attention and perhaps ultimately, interest in nihonto.

 

Sorry, it seemed from your last post that you kind of did doubt this, my mistake.

 

They are not however realistic, and surely are not expected to be. They are entertainment.

Yes, but these facts do not devalue their contribution to getting newbies involved with collecting, which was kind of the point of my argument. That and the fact that this 'entertainment' will represent a proportionally greater and greater source of inspiration for collecting as time goes on. The fact is that nowadays using a sword as originally intended (as a weapon), is in itself a fantasy, entertainment. What used to be 'real' military training is a pastime now rather than a serious and 'real world' applicable endeavor.

 

Capturing attention is however not what motivates someone to become a collector, at least not in isolation. It takes forums such as the NMB and other avenues of information and interaction with people who collect or have the knowledge, to nurture that initial attention so that it becomes first a curiosity and then perhaps a deeper interest. Nothing does this ideally like the access to swords themselves, though this is by no means easy for the beginner. More importantly access to people who enjoy talking about their hobby. For all the value that mass media may have in access to information, there is still no substitute for contact with like minded people to fire someone's imagination. Passion is infectious. Nor is this alone enough. What makes a collector is a variety of inputs over a longish period of time. Those inputs may be legion or few but the compound influence they have is invaluable.

Agree entirely, which is another reason why I think that interest in Nihonto can only grow over time - in great part because of channels like the NMB.