Soshin Posted October 24, 2012 Report Posted October 24, 2012 Hi Everyone, I wanted get people's opinion on the following tsuba listed for sale at Aoi Art website: http://www.aoi-art.com/fittings/tsuba/F11077.html. I have seen some modern reproductions of this design that I really like. I also find it strange that Aoi Art didn't list a approximate age of the tsuba. If it is modern reproduction then it is way over priced. Please comments and opinions on the tsuba are welcome. Soon I will be following up with Aoi Art. Yours truly, David Stiles Quote
Henry Wilson Posted October 24, 2012 Report Posted October 24, 2012 To me it looks late Edo and the metal reminds me of Tosho style. The kanji seems to read 八幡大菩薩 Hachiman Daibosatsu, and all in all the tsuba gives me the impression of a revival peice of the good old Muromachi period. The Japanese site does not give any information above what the English site says. Why don't you email them and find out what era they think? Quote
Soshin Posted October 25, 2012 Author Report Posted October 25, 2012 Hi Henry W., I agree in terms of the age. In the late Edo Period there was a fair number of revival pieces with designs from the late Muromachi Period. These late tsuba were of varying quality and workmanship. Here is a modern reproduction of the same design: http://tsubaryuken.com/06sinB/06B-59.html listed for sale at this Japanese website. I will contact Aoi-Art and inquire about the age of their tsuba. Yours truly, David Stiles Quote
Soshin Posted October 25, 2012 Author Report Posted October 25, 2012 Hi Everyone, Contacted Aoi-Art and they estimate the age to be between the late Edo to Meiji Periods. This I think would also explain the lack of a NBTHK paper and would agree with the revival piece theory. Would like to know if the original Muromachi Period piece with the same design is still around. The original was likely of Kachushi origin while the later copy were made by a Tosho. Overall not a bad tsuba for the price in my opinion. Yours truly, David Stiles Quote
ROKUJURO Posted October 25, 2012 Report Posted October 25, 2012 While I like the old TSUBA with this design a lot, in my eyes the revival piece lacks good and visible workmanship. It seems to have been aged artificially by acid treatment, and this ended up in eroded spots on a relatively 'dead' surface, showing nothing of the steel qualities. I would have liked some TSUCHIME or a genuine MIGAKIJI surface, depending on the style intended. Just my one and a half cents.... Quote
Soshin Posted October 25, 2012 Author Report Posted October 25, 2012 Hi Jean C., I agree. This revival tsuba lacks any of the iron actively (tekkotsu, sekkotsu, or tsuchimei-ji) you would see in the Muromachi Period Kachushi tsuba with this ji-sukashi design. I don't think it was purposefully "aged" but the patina was just heavily applied. Check out eBay for many examples of "aged" tsuba copies. Someone also posted one on the tosogu forum recently. I will not generalize because there are a few revival tsuba that still cause experts and experienced collectors problems with identification in terms of age. Even with this the price is still reasonable give that if the original was up for sale anywhere it would be priced with a few more zeros. Yours truly, David Stiles Quote
Ford Hallam Posted October 25, 2012 Report Posted October 25, 2012 I don't think this is a late Edo/early meiji revival piece myself. To my eyes it looks like a modern hobby work. Here's the original, it's quite well published. As Henry said, Muromachi Period. 'Hachiman Dai Bosatsu and 5 sectioned Buddhist stupa, a 'Gorin' And David, that modern copy you linked to is terrible It looks like a chocolate biscuit that was dunked in hot coffee for too long. It is just a sloppy mess. Quote
kunitaro Posted October 25, 2012 Report Posted October 25, 2012 It looks like a chocolate biscuit that was dunked in hot coffee for too long. Quote
Soshin Posted October 25, 2012 Author Report Posted October 25, 2012 I don't think this is a late Edo/early meiji revival piece myself. To my eyes it looks like a modern hobby work. And David, that modern copy you linked to is terrible It looks like a chocolate biscuit that was dunked in hot coffee for too long. It is just a sloppy mess. Hi Ford, Your analysis and input is always welcome. Thanks you so much for posting a photo of the really great original as well. Which I would classifity as Ko-Shoami circa mid to late Muromachi Period. In regards to the chocolate biscuit that was dunked in hot coffee. Sounds like a great breakfast to me. :lol: Yours truly, David Stiles Quote
Ford Hallam Posted October 25, 2012 Report Posted October 25, 2012 Hi David, glad to add what I can It's actually pegged as Katchushi by Japanese authorities, which might seem a bit surprising I suppose. Quote
Soshin Posted October 26, 2012 Author Report Posted October 26, 2012 Hi Ford, After calling Kachushi before seeing the original and then after seeing the original calling it Ko-Shoami because of the gold inlay work. I think some of these mid to late Muromachi tsuba can be a bit hard to classify. It clearly shows in my opinion the origin of the Ko-Shoami school as the early Kachushi tsuba group. Yours truly, Daivd Stiles Quote
Ford Hallam Posted October 26, 2012 Report Posted October 26, 2012 David, don't get me wrong I actually would tend to agree with your assessment as Ko-Shoami. The Katchushi label does seem tenuous. And we should remember that Tosho and Katchushi are only conceptual labels created for convenience and not defined schools. regards, Ford Quote
ROKUJURO Posted October 26, 2012 Report Posted October 26, 2012 Perhaps if the MUROMACHI TSUBA had similar dimensions (diameter near to 4") might this have had an influence in classifiying the item as KATCHUSHI? What do you think? Quote
Ford Hallam Posted October 26, 2012 Report Posted October 26, 2012 Jean, yes the original is about that size and I think you may have a point. Quote
Ford Hallam Posted October 28, 2012 Report Posted October 28, 2012 I was looking for this quote with that 'chocolate biscuit' tsuba in mind, someone just posted it on facebook today, bit slow but thought it a reasonable maxim for us all to bear in mind. It's usually attributed to John Ruskin....but that's not correct. "There is hardly anything in the world that someone cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price alone are that person's lawful prey." Quote
Pete Klein Posted October 28, 2012 Report Posted October 28, 2012 Ford -- I looked at that tsuba you referred to -- the glazed doughnut -- and all I could think of was Bluto's reaction to seeing Kent Dorfman's picture when it was projected during the pledge review at the frat house in 'Animal House'...! AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! Quote
Soshin Posted October 29, 2012 Author Report Posted October 29, 2012 Hi Pete K., I think I found the clip on YouTube you are talking about. What a classic movie enjoy everyone. :D Yours truly, David Stiles Quote
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