Henry Wilson

It looks like it was a very nice event. Thanks for the pictures.

Guido, is that your evil twin third from the right in the blue shirt..... or is it Ted Tenold?

Any news on the raffle?

What a great thread. Thank you so much guys. Keith, I think you can download iTunes for free to any PC and then on iTunes download the podcast. You can listen to the podcast on the PC using iTunes. Here is iTunes http://www.apple.com/itunes/ Good luck.

Oh you should as I was there so I can tell you for sure. :D Have a listen to this, Episode 10. The first attack could have been reconnaissance. http://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/a-sh ... d381288562

Thank you very much gentlemen for sharing your knowledge. The thread has taken a course towards the examination of the the arms used, which is very interesting and I hope more can be added. To try and add a bit more to the discussion, from what I understand, it is believed that the Mongol Incidents have been distorted with myths and exaggeration. Here is what I understand about the incidents. There were two landings and failed invasions. The first in November 1274. A force from Korea was sent. The number of troops has been reported as being 10 - 1 to the Mongols. However it seems more likely that it was 3,000 samurai, against about 7,000 to 13,000. The Mongols (mostly Koreans and other conscripts probably) got a few kilometers in land. The fighting was a series of uncoordinated skirmish. A samurai archer was lucky enough to shoot a Mongol general in the head, the Mongols retreated back to their ships and that night...... The fleet disappeared. There is speculation that a typhoon actually hit Kyushu then. Maybe a gale but it is doubted it was a Kamikaze. The fleet could have gone back home as it is believed that the number of troops sent from Korea was not enough to invade Japan. Also typhoons don't usually hit Japan in November. What happened it seems that Suenaga (the official reporter by scroll painting) could have made the whole incident more dramatic than what it was. The second attempt seems to be a bit more serious. It was in 1280 around the end of August. There were two fleets, one from Korea and one from Southern China. It is believed there were about 10,000 Mongols invaders and they had a lot more resources. There was the similar land based fighting but suddenly the weather started to change. The Mongols who were not very familiar with the sea and tied their ships together to try and stabilize them, but the typhoon that struck and sunk the fleet. And so ends the Mongol expansion to the East.

Hi Alex Nice answer. I sense you did not cut and paste it from a website :D . I can see how the Mongol visit (it wasn't an invasion) influenced things in the past. My point is that it is not that significant overall which might be where our points of view are differing. To my knowledge in modern-day Japan, Mongolia is not present at all in Japanese culture a part from a few sumo wrestlers. The influence on swords are well known amongst us but ask a modern Japanese person about the sword and Kublai Kan and most would not have a clue what you are on about. The consolidation of the country, meaning a gathering together of the provinces I think would have probably happen as a matter of course as time went on mainly through necessity. I think the Chinese model (government, city planning, society etc) was much more significant and I would like to put forward that Mongols could be regard as more of a wake-up call when compared to other events in the past. Just my spin on things and would love to hear from others.

Thank you John for your reply. I could argue that the changes in Japan that you cite would have happened anyway, with or without a visit from the Mongolians. The development of rice based agriculture, the arrival of Buddhism, contact with China as well the Black ships at the end of the Edo period in my opinion are much more significant. I think the Mongol visits were a catalyst to change that was would have happened anyway.

As an effort to try and generate some intellectual discussion on this interesting find, here are some thoughts that we can all chew on. Despite what history books and historians say, I fail to see how the attempted Mongol invasions were that important on Japanese history. After all, they both failed. Apart from a certain mind-set summed up in the concept of "Kamikaze", the Japanese didn't absorb much other than some technology and techniques from the Mongols. I put to the house that on the whole Mongolian affair was hardly D-Day. Any thoughts on this? By the way Happy DTI weekend.

I think put simply 伝 or DEN translates as "tradition / style" in the shinsa context. "Den Mito Sukemitsu" could mean "in the style of Mito Sukemitsu"

Thanks Chris for that detailed explanation. I have attended afew of the NTHK NPO shinsa in the past as an observer and were great experiences. NTHK-NPO is the way to go... :D

I don't think they are good definitions and seem a bit vague. Music is art which seems to have been overlooked.... To me, art is something that creates an emotion.... Just like this thread.

Calm Down!

Why not come even if you have to pay for the flight? http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/ ... 014f1.html

You are indeed right Ian. I over looked the the difference in design. Thank you for pointing that out.

Even better one here: http://tetsugendo.com/kodogu/T-128_Nobuie.html

There is nothing wrong with a theme being common IMHO. If fact to have a common theme on a good tsuba is quite nice...

I believe. If it is in the Japan Times, it must be true............... http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/ ... 012a2.html

Here is a tsuba that once belonged to me signed Shinryo for reference. He was an Edo era sword smith. It seems to have more in common with the initial Myochin then David's.

Hi David Thanks for the information on Myochin as I don't know that much about the group. It would be great if you could post pictures of your mokume Myochin as reference. Cheers

Hi David This might sound like stating the obvious but the metal and possibly the hammer work is what Skip sees as Kyo Shoami as nothing else seems to point in that direction. I don't know very much about the said group but to me the name suggests a mixture of Kyoto characteristics and other characteristics that don't fall in line with classic groups like Kyo sukashi. I hope others with more knowledge add a few comments.

Dear Curt From the pictures it looks like a real tsuba. Whether or not is gimei is hard to tell. Signature aside, I am not sure Myochin made such mokume tsuba and I associate these tsuba more with Edo period sword smiths who made a tusba occasionally. Myochin is a armour making family lineage and something more Katchushi is what I would expect and the tsuba in question has a basic shape that looks Edo period Tosho to me... It might be a good idea to compare the signature with verified ones to help decide if it is gimei or not. Personally I think it is not gimei, only because the work is not that great. It is possible it is real Myochin (even though the design is not what i would expect), but 工房作 or "studio produced" Myochin and not the work of a master, but one of his workshop attendants. However, it is hard to tell for sure unless the pictures are of a better resolution or better still, it can be seen in hand. Just my two yen worth and I could be very wrong in my analysis. Best regards

Something here to get your teeth into.... viewtopic.php?f=6&t=11037 viewtopic.php?f=9&t=8915&p=73613&hilit=trip&sid=ade4879cd068223164bf4530b452c6ea#p73613 http://www.nihonto.com/daitokenichi.html

Some thoughts below (for what it is worth). The ear scoop has been removed which makes me think the split is a later alteration. I think the split kogai style is an Edo period trend. At that time there would not have been many campaigns so no situation were it was necessary to have a set of chopsticks in the scabbard for the fighting warrior. If they were intended for eating, bamboo would be suffice and more practical which is the material that the first kogai are believed to be have been made of. Also chopsticks deteriorate surprising quickly and kogai used for eating would have teeth marks and nasty tarnishing at the tips which would be obvious. There are no concrete theories on what kogai and kozuka were really intended for. A lot of scholars in the past have looked into this, but they all seem to have differing opinions. The only thing they seem to agree on is that they are part of a scabbard because they have always been part of a scabbard (back to the Heian period) and they became part of the wearers dress code. Sasano "Tosogu no Kigen" book has a good survey on them as part of his studies on the development of uchigatana and dating of katana tsuba.

One for the ladies http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/ ... 009x1.html