markturner Posted January 17, 2012 Report Posted January 17, 2012 Hi guys, I am using the sho-sin link that Jean kindly provided to try and hunt down some information on the Munetsugu smith who made my Katana ( see thread titled same recently) and have found a couple in the right age. can someone tell me how the dates for the smiths work? Do they indicate the smiths DOB, or the start of the Era in which he was working? IE if my sword is dated 1812, and the smiths era is shown as 1803, does that mean he could have made my sword? Or would he have only been 9 years old... Cheers, Mark Quote
Jean Posted January 17, 2012 Report Posted January 17, 2012 Date of activity http://www.sho-shin.com/use.htm Quote
markturner Posted January 17, 2012 Author Report Posted January 17, 2012 Hi Jean, does the date indicate the start of the period of activity, the centre or some other range? A swordsmith could have a long working life and if the date indicates the start of this, then the range of possibilities is much greater. The useage link did not seem to make that very clear. Specifically, my sword is dated 1819, so for example, there is a Munetsugu working in iwashiro province, the date shown in the sho-shin database is 1804, so I could safely assume it is probably that Munetsugu ? The next Munetsugu listed has a date of 1830, so he would be too late? Thanks for your patience! Regards, Mark Quote
Jean Posted January 17, 2012 Report Posted January 17, 2012 The date represent the peak activity. So the answer is "yes" Quote
markturner Posted January 17, 2012 Author Report Posted January 17, 2012 Hi Jean, thanks for that. One question arising, if it does represent peak activity, then my swords date is only 11 years earlier than the second Munetsugu I referred to, it's possible he could also have done it? Presumably the period of peak activity would be preceded by several years of lesser activity and learning, in which case there is an overlap of the two possible smiths? In my case, how would you best tell ? The sho-shin database appears to only cover the Koto period, where can I look for details of Munetsugu post Koto? regards, Mark Quote
Jean Posted January 17, 2012 Report Posted January 17, 2012 In Fujishiro or other Taikan/Zuikan to have oshigata's of the works of both smiths and compare them to your sword. Quote
markturner Posted January 17, 2012 Author Report Posted January 17, 2012 Hi Jean, are any of those available digitally to look at? Or do you have to buy them.. I see the second Munetsugu is rated 700 points and jo jo / Juyo, so its probably unlikely to be him unless I have got real lucky...which would be nice! The sword was ex the Bigelow collection and has a Honami sayagaki, so it's certainly a decent sword...but probably not that decent ! best, Mark Quote
Jean Posted January 17, 2012 Report Posted January 17, 2012 Mark, If any NMB members can provide them, this will be your best chance Quote
kazarena Posted January 21, 2012 Report Posted January 21, 2012 Hi Mark, I think it's worth mentioning that the dates in Sho-Shin (and Hawley's too, and many other English sources) usually just mark the first year of the Japanese era (nengo). I.e. if you see something like this: MUNETSUGU BUN-KA 1804 1804 is just the beginning of Bunka era (1804-1818). If you look at Japanese (as: in Japanese language) swordsmith directories, smiths are listed by era only without references to a particular year (e.g. that Munetsugu would appear as 'Munetsugu of Iwashiro, Bunka era' (which means his peak activity was in Bunka era, or, to re-phrase it, there were examples of smith's works with Bunka era inscribed on the tang, or there is some other evidence or historical accounts that the smith was active during this era, and the further back you go in time, the more spurious and imprecise these accounts will be). As Western readers aren't used to nengo system, usually the first year of the era appears in the listings. Hawley is sometimes more precise and puts a range of dates against the smith's record. It may be quite misleading for an inexperienced reader. Some eras span over 30 years (e.g. Oei, 1394-1428) but all you'll see in the English listings is 1394, even if the smith worked in 1420s and later. On the other hand, some eras are too short (only 2-3 years), and in this case you'd usually see something like 'this smith was active between era A and era B'. However, typical concise swordsmith directories would only mention era A or era B or some era in between, whichever the author considered to be the most representative period of smith's work. Regards, Stan Quote
markturner Posted January 21, 2012 Author Report Posted January 21, 2012 Hi Stan, thanks, yes I guess you have to assume that the smith could have been active 15- 20 years before and after the given dates, especially if the date just indicates period of peak activity. This is all like a very old who dunnit...!! Regards, Mark Quote
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