jeremy Posted February 13, 2011 Report Posted February 13, 2011 Were solid one piece silver habaki used during the koto/shinto eras on swords that would see actual use? Ive tried looking for solid silver one piece antique habaki, not silver foiled, with no luck. Can anyone help? Kind regards, Jeremy hagop Quote
sanjuro Posted February 13, 2011 Report Posted February 13, 2011 Hi Jeremy I am by no means an expert on this particular issue, but having been a collector of koto tachi for quite some time, perhaps I would have been in a better position to have seen an antique solid silver habaki. Such things were if they existed, more likely to have been fitted to high end tachi in the koto period and many would have then predictably survived into the shinto period. I can without exception say I have never come across a solid silver antique habaki. I have seen solid silver habaki on blades that have been repolished and mounted in shirasaya, but never on an originally mounted blade of the koto period. There are many silver foiled examples around and indeed I own some swords so fitted. There are gold foiled examples and also I have owned in the past a solid gold antique (shinto period) habaki but never solid silver. I suspect that silver was possibly either not plentiful enough or for some reason not considered suitable for habaki although other tosogu were sometimes produced in silver. Interesting question. Quote
jeremy Posted February 14, 2011 Author Report Posted February 14, 2011 Thanks for the reply Keith. If solid piece gold habaki were used, I dont see how silver would of been considered inappropriate for habaki, as both gold and silver have the same hardness. Maybe it was just unaffordable back in the day....??? I await other responses.... Kind regards, Jeremy Hagop Quote
sanjuro Posted February 14, 2011 Report Posted February 14, 2011 Jeremy. Gold and silver do not have the same hardness. Solid gold (22 carat plus)is quite a bit softer than the purest silver. Back in the day silver would not have been as pure as it is now, and would have contained other metal in traces. Sterling silver Is now at 995 parts per thousand , but it would not have been so highly refined a few centuries ago. Old solid gold would have contained a significant amount of trace metals (mostly copper) and would also have been alloyed with silver to some extent to make it harder. Gold does not work harden whereas silver and copper do. Hard or soft does not really come into this as a final criteria however. The oldest habaki were of iron and still served the same purpose as a modern copper habaki. There are I think, other considerations not covered here, so I too await responses from others to enlighten us further. :D Dammit! Now I too am curious........ Quote
jeremy Posted February 14, 2011 Author Report Posted February 14, 2011 Thanks for the clarification Keith on the hardness of the two metals, I was only going on the Moh's hardness scale which has both gold and silver at about 2.5-3. Ive also posted this question on other sword forums, to broaden my chance of receiving a clear answer. Kind regards, Jeremy Hagop Quote
jeremy Posted February 15, 2011 Author Report Posted February 15, 2011 For those of you who are interested, I just got confirmation back from Rich Stein about silver habaki. Solid silver habaki were used, but were mainly used in the Shinto and Shinshinto eras. Kind regards, Jeremy Hagop Quote
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