Help with Norisuke mei ...

[docliss]

Can any kind member please help me with this translation? On p.225 of Tsuba: an Aesthetric Study the kanji

二子屋満仼則祏道人 are translated as FUTAGOYAMA (NO)JU NORISUKE DOJIN. But I feel that this is erroneous, and am puzzled by the third and fourth kanji.

 

With thanks for your help, John L.

[Pete Klein]

It's 'Donin'. See Haynes.

[docliss]

Pete, I believe that the two final kanji may be read as either 'DONIN' or 'DOJIN' - am I correct in this? But the third and fourth kanji still have me puzzled. John L.

[Pete Klein]

Futa - go - ya - ma; Futagoyama. The third and fourth kanji are ya ma.

[Toryu2020]

In Japanese there is a practice called ate-ji - the use of kanji that can be read with the target sounding. Thus 中心 two common characters are seen as Chushin for most Japanese readers but as the first can be read "Naka" and the second "Go", among sword enthusiasts we see them as Nakago - and in fact this rendering has become the common kanji used. While it makes an odd sense these kanji may have been chosen simply because they "sounded" right.

 

So then we can see

双子矢間

双児家魔

蓋後山

双子山

 

All these could be read futago-yama but only one may be an actual place name, the rest nonsense except sounded out they have the right sound. That may in fact be all that the maker was after with his use of the kanji in question. I wonder if the person was not someone unfamiliar with actual signatures of Norisuke and only sounded out the signature using these characters...

-t

[docliss]

I should like to acknowledge all of those members who contibuted to this thread. As is usual, all of my queries have been answered very satisfactorily. Thank you. John L.