Any Photos/Oshigata of Midare-Shintogo?

[Zoglet]

Hello everyone,

 

I've been reading more into Shintogo Kunimitsu lately, and I keep hearing controversy on the blade "Midare Shintogo" from the smith, particularly on the topic of its legitimacy as a signature. If anyone has an oshigata or a photo of the dagger, I'd greatly appreciate the chance to see this piece finally. Thank you, everyone, for your time!

 

Best Regards,

Zoglet

[Jussi Ekholm]

I believe it should be this Jūyō Bijutsuhin tantō.

 

 

[Zoglet]

@Jussi Ekholm Thank you so much!

[Lewis B]

Having also encountered this controversy the suggestion is the Midare Shintogo was daimei daisaku by Yukimitsu. The deviation in the signature to which you're referring could be the absence of the north crown radical on the mitsu kanji. A similar discrepancy is found on the 1306 tanto to which Tanobe sensei suggested reminded him of Yukimitsu's Mei in Token Bijutsu #29. Compare to Yukimitsu's signature.

 

     

[nulldevice]

Here is another photo of the blade

 

 

[Zoglet]

1 hour ago, Lewis B said:

Having also encountered this controversy the suggestion is the Midare Shintogo was daimei daisaku by Yukimitsu. The deviation in the signature to which you're referring could be the absence of the north crown radical on the mitsu kanji. A similar discrepancy is found on the 1306 tanto to which Tanobe sensei suggested reminded him of Yukimitsu's Mei in Token Bijutsu #29. Compare to Yukimitsu's signature.

 

     

That's exactly the theory that I read. The radical on the "mitsu" character is more Yukimitsu-esque, and, in general, the clustering of the nie along the habuchi does appear similar to Yukimitsu's work, at least to my eye. Generally, Kunimitsu's work seems to have a thinner clustering along the nioi-guchi. Cool to see that, if this is a Yukimitsu daisaku-daimei, then Yukimitsu is also capable of working in okina-no-hige along the boshi. Thank you for the references and added opinion from Tanobe!

 

All the Best!

Zoglet

[Zoglet]

1 hour ago, nulldevice said:

Here is another photo of the blade

 

 

Ah, thanks, Chandler!

[Lewis B]

11 minutes ago, Zoglet said:

That's exactly the theory that I read. The radical on the "mitsu" character is more Yukimitsu-esque, and, in general, the clustering of the nie along the habuchi does appear similar to Yukimitsu's work, at least to my eye. Generally, Kunimitsu's work seems to have a thinner clustering along the nioi-guchi. Cool to see that, if this is a Yukimitsu daisaku-daimei, then Yukimitsu is also capable of working in okina-no-hige along the boshi. Thank you for the references and added opinion from Tanobe!

 

All the Best!

Zoglet

I think we can say is that the Midare Shintogo represents an important transitional work. Call it a prototype, that establishes the first toe into the Soshuden pool. It would not surprise me if there was a difference to later works by Yukimitsu when working independently together with Masamune, as the forging style evolved.

If by Yukimitsu then the fact  it's signed 'Kunimitsu' is another indication it was made during his apprenticeship with the old guy. 

[Zoglet]

1 minute ago, Lewis B said:

I think we can say is that the Midare Shintogo represents an important transitional work. Call it a prototype, that establishes the first toe into the Soshuden pool. It would not surprise me if there was a difference to later works by Yukimitsu when working independently together with Masamune. If by Yukimitsu then the fact  it's signed 'Kunimitsu' is another indication it was made during his apprenticeship with the old guy. 

Definitely. I find it particularly interesting, and honestly, I'm surprised that this blade isn't thrown around as much (at least where I communicate about tanto) compared to other Kunimitsu works like Aizu Shintogo, which more represent his "textbook" style of swordsmithing (leaning more into the Awataguchi School traditions, with hints of Soshu-den elements, like the clusters of chikei or rare burls of chu-mokume along the ji). At least for me, it definitely stands out as one of the more historically relevant early Soshu pieces to study.

[Lewis B]

Something I just noticed on the two examples I posted is that the horizontal strike on mitsu appear deeper than the other strikes. Reminiscent of some Norishige mei when he carved the shige kanji. One smith influencing another?

[Jussi Ekholm]

I feel one big problem on featuring the item in publications is item accessibility. Some items just don't get much exposure to public and for some I think it might be a rare occasion even to sword experts in Japan to see the item.

 

Aizu Shintōgo on the other hand is on the easy viewing side, as it is on display. I've seen it and it is remarkable sword even though I am personally not a huge fan of that very fine workmanship, I prefer rougher items with more "character". Of course hands on viewing of a such an item is probably only possible for very selected few experts.

[Lewis B]

Another interesting tidbit is that the Midare-Shintogo has iorimune, thus strengthening the notion this was not a piece directly made by Shintogo. Atypical Mei, atypical mune and atypical hamon. I would say that was quite compelling evidence for daimei-daisaku. 

Edited April 16 by Lewis B

[Hoshi]

Hello, 

 

To my eyes it is much more likely that it is, indeed, the work of Yukimitsu, signed with the Shintogo Atelier mei. 

 

As we know, it wasn't just Shintogo himself signing Shintogo Kunimitsu. It was a brand for his workshop in Kamakura. 

 

My personal speculations on this is that there was, at the beginning, a single workshop: the Shintogo Atelier, producing highly refined daito and tanto for the warrior elite. Very much classical Awataguchi. Over time, Yukimitsu felt the creative urge deviate and to create pieces that fall outside of the established teachings of Shintogo. Creative minds are like this, they have an urge to innovate, and producing the classical tanto must have felt extremely limiting after many years. 

 

I can imagine that this tanto was such a radical deviation that it may have caused a spark between the master and the student. It was a risk to the Atelier's brand to introduce a different product. A decision may have been reached, at some point in time, to separate the workshops: one will continue to produce the safe product, headed by Shintogo's son and brothers, and the other atelier would produce something different and experiment freely. This is where Yukimitsu, Masamune, and Norishige come in.

 

There was a rupture, and they split: This is why Yukimitsu started signing with his own name. Today, surviving Yukimitsu tanto are all over the place in terms of shape and deki. It is astounding range of workmanship and experimentation.

 

So, to sum up, it can be argued that it was Yukimitsu, the true founder of the Soshu tradition. And with the range of work we see in Masamune and Norishige, Yukimitsu was eminently tolerant of experimentation - and even encouraged it, such that each member of the atelier could pursue his own dreams and desires. He flew from his own wings out of frustration, reached an arrangement with Shintogo to preserve the brand intact by signing with his own name, and started a parallel atelier that would not pose a threat to the brand integrity of the Awataguchi tradition. 

 

The rest is history.

 

Best,

 

Hoshi

 

 

 

 

[Lewis B]

1 hour ago, Hoshi said:

So, to sum up, it can be argued that it was Yukimitsu, the true founder of the Soshu tradition. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And this to my mind is the clear inference. Yukimitsu being the actual defacto founder of Soshuden and not the more traditionally influenced Shintogo with his roots in the Kyoto Awataguchi school and Yamashiro-den. Its precisely this blade that has muddied the water, unfairly reducing Yukimitsu to a follower rather than a true innovator.

It should be fairly easy to undertand where Yukimitsu was getting these ideas. Swordmaking technology rarely evolved in a vacuum and so that begs the question what led  Yukimitsu to experiment in nie deki and midare tempering styles.

Its said his father was 2nd generation Bungo Yukihira so could this connection have been the progenitor for this new style of swordmaking? Knowledge and techniques were being shared throughout Japan at this time (Goban Kaji and the Kamakura Bakufu bringing Bizen and Awataguchi smiths together in Sagami, to name two).

Sho-shin has this interesting figure showing the 3 "style-rivers" which may offer some leads and help explain Yukimitsu's urge to experiement in this direction. 

 

 

I need to do more research on the swordmaking styles of these earlier smiths from Mutsu, Bungo and Bizen Ichimonji. 

Edited April 17 by Lewis B

[Hoshi]

Hi, 

 

I would not read too much into the Edo period texts regarding who was the son of who. It was common practice at the time to 'over connect' the dots to make it all fit together neatly. More of a memory aid, same with the '10 students of Masamune' and so on. 

 

We are not in need, I think, of an external explanation of where "Yukimitsu got his ideas" so to speak. Notare-based tempering in nie-deki is not new, it was practice by Ko-Bizen smiths for instance for nearly two centuries. One could argue that it is the obvious thing to do.

 

What the Soshu tradition did was to innovate on perfecting nie and chickei to their absolute apex on the basis of an awataguchi core training. 

 

Yukimitsu's entire life theme is experimentation. Trial and error, all the way to Hitatsura and truly exotic tanto shapes. 

 

What he had was excellent core training through his Awataguchi roots, at the highest-level. And we must remember that experimentations did not happen in a vacuum, he was very much responding to the tastes and preferences of his high-level clients, who had in their possession masterpiece blades from Bizen, Hoki, and all confines of Japan from which he could learn and observe. Thus, the Soshu style co-evolved with the desires of his customers, and the need to differentiate his work from the Shintogo Atelier. 

 

What we see emerge are masculine blades, with low shinogi, and an aggressive profile with wide motohaba. The prototypical Yukimitsu blade is an Awataguchi-level hada, a masculine profile, and a gentle notare, but his style was incredibly wide and he experimented with flamboyant midareba, hitatsura, exotic tanto shapes and much more. We know this not just from the scarce signed tanto he left behind, but also from the many Ko-Hon'ami attributions that have survived to this day. This is why Yukimitsu is a 'safe harbour' attribution for top-class Soshu works. 

 

Best

 

Hoshi