A little "kantei" game

[Laurian]

I’d like to make you a pre-Christmas weekend “game” proposition. 
Of course, this wouldn’t qualify to be any sort of kantei, not even close (as it’s based on pictures only), but I think it could prove useful to some of us who, like myself, are looking for advice and knowledgeable input from more experienced members. I confess, my goal is to open some constructive and enjoyable debate (if anyone is interested), but mainly to learn more from you guys. 
So, these are photos of two blades which, at least at first glance, seem to share many features, in terms of sugata, hamon, hada, etc. They are both suriage mumei, as you can see. Due to their similarities, I thought they’d make a good case for comparison. But of course, my untrained eye could have missed important differences between the two.
So, what do you think, attribution-wise?
For now, for the sake of this little game, I’ll only say that one of them is a Juyo Token, the other a TH. Can’t say which one is which. Maybe some of you have already come across these swords online, but, for the time being, I won’t be sharing any more information.
What do you think sets these blades apart? And what makes one of them Juyo material? Could the other one be a Juyo shinsa candidate as well, perhaps? I know, without the blades in hand, it’s very hard to tell, but still.
Thank you all!

If this is just silly, my apologies. Simply skip the post.  
 

[Laurian]

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1u0h2FqfjSEu2gKF9DjYCdEZMCZKVZho5?usp=sharing

Higher resolution photos here.

[klee]

1st sword : Ko Mihara ?

 

2nd sword : Tegai ?

[Jussi Ekholm]

It is very difficult to say as I am often struggling to understand the fine differences. I would think these both are Yamato style swords and would be from late Kamakura - Nanbokuchō period.

 

For the first sword I would guess Tegai. My reasoning for that is that the 5 mainline Yamato seem to have their own small differences. To me Tegai would seem logical as for Taima I would expect tighter and "finer" jigane. Shikkake I would expect to see bit different hamon activity. Senjuin would have more "rougher" feeling to me personally and for Hoshō there would be so strong masame.

 

For the second sword I would guess Ko-Mihara. This one maybe does have bit tighter hada to my eye, however it does not seem like Taima level quality in overall as it seems bit weaker in presence than the first sword. My explanation of my thoughts might be difficult to grasp as it is difficult to put it in words. So I will go for Ko-Mihara on this. Honestly I could throw the same Tegai guess for this one too. 

 

I would not have guessed that either of these swords are Jūyō but if one is then I think it is the 1st sword.

[Laurian]

Thank you! Very, very useful information. Respect, guys! 

The first blade was attributed to the Tegai school, while the second one to Hokke. Both are indeed Nanbokuchō.

 

Edited December 21, 2025 by Laurian
Typo

[Laurian]

You are right, Jussi. The Tegai blade is the Jūyō.  

[Jussi Ekholm]

That is very interesting. I don't know that much about details of Hokke and don't know the kantei features of the school so well. But it was nice I got close with Ko-Mihara guess.

 

I actually have blade that has old papers to Hokke Ichijō and it has portions that have nice fine looking hada. Unfortunately my photography is awful...

 

[Laurian]

On 12/28/2025 at 12:43 AM, Jussi Ekholm said:

That is very interesting. I don't know that much about details of Hokke and don't know the kantei features of the school so well. But it was nice I got close with Ko-Mihara guess.

 

I actually have blade that has old papers to Hokke Ichijō and it has portions that have nice fine looking hada. Unfortunately my photography is awful...

 

The picture is not that bad. Not at all. I can see the hada pretty clearly. I have to admit now, at last, that the Hokke blade I posted pictures of is actually my sword... So I can make a more direct comparison. According to the sword's description (from Aoi Art, which you could probably tell already ), it features some utsuri (showing in the oshigata as well). Under some very specific lighting conditions, I was able to see it, but faintly. No hi on my blade (which I like, actually).

One more question please: what's that thread-like "thing" (for the lack of a better word) showing in the right-hand side of your picture? I'm not sure what I'm looking at, as the  only three blades I ever had my hands (and eyes) on are my own. But, in some online examples (this one, for instance https://www.aoijapan.com/katana-awataguchi-omi-no-kami-tadatuni-nbthk-tokubetsu-hozon-token/) it could be shintetsu, perhaps? Or simply some kind of kataraki? I don't think it's kizu...

Thank you!

[eternal_newbie]

1 hour ago, Laurian said:

what's that thread-like "thing" (for the lack of a better word) showing in the right-hand side of your picture?

I'm curious to see others' opinions on this, because I've seen many arguments over exactly what those silver-coloured squiggles are. Some folks say chikei while others insist chikei show up as black lines only; other folks say kitae-ware but still more folks insist they can't be ware because there's no actual opening in the blade; or that they're just a slightly more visible expression of the underlying hada; and so on. I do think there seems to be a difference between the ones in the Tadatsuna and Jussi's blade; Jussi's seems more like nie activity, maybe something akin to imozuru, while the Tadatsuna's lines look more like lamination/fold lines that weren't quite loose enough to become ware.

[Jussi Ekholm]

I just realized I had taken that picture over 5 years ago. Honestly I don't know what the lines are, I have just thought it is more visible portion of hada for some reason. I took few pictures just now, in this sword you can see the squiggly line is at the end of bit openish nagare hada portion. I remember in the first picture I posted I wanted to try to take picture of the good hada and not this lower portion. Metallurigical things are way out of my league but I do think it is possible that the rougher nagare parts that show up on few portions of this worn down sword are core steel, and the fine hada that is on the majority of the sword is the surface steel.

 

 

I also took a picture now that shows few more squiggly lines closer to the tip. It may not show up in the pictures but the sword is extremely wide. I personally believe it is ō-suriage ōdachi and the hi is added on later. Unfortunately the bōshi is missing as the hamon runs off, so the kissaki has been much bigger in it's original form.