Yamato Daijo Fujiwara Masanori

[Lewis B]

31 minutes ago, eternal_newbie said:

 

It's rarely an easy choice - aside from the costs, there's also the risks of a restoration going bad, getting stuck in an expanding queue, going lost in transition, major or even fatal flaws being uncovered in the process etc. In the end all we can do is use our best judgement in deciding the best way to curate and preserve these items so that future generations may enjoy them as well.

Actually the cost was quite reasonable and was the first part of the project to be completed. Took something like 3 weeks to complete. Making the new shirasaya on the other hand is taking forever. 

Some interesting thoughts on the subject of originality, preservation or replacement were presented here 

https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/7788-retain-or-discard-old-habaki/#comment-77462

 

Edited May 27 by Lewis B

[Bruce Pennington]

@nulldevice

Chandler, sorry for interrupting the conversation, but do you know which Hon'ami this appraiser is?  I don't have access to the Sesko book on it, right now.

[nulldevice]

14 minutes ago, Bruce Pennington said:

@nulldevice

Chandler, sorry for interrupting the conversation, but do you know which Hon'ami this appraiser is?  I don't have access to the Sesko book on it, right now.

@Bruce Pennington This is the  Hon'ami OG - Hon’ami Kōtoku (光徳). Sesko has him active from 1553-1619

[Bruce Pennington]

Thanks brother!

Well, now I'm in a bind.  I have another kakihan on file that I had listed as Hon’ami Kōtoku.  Are you able to look this kao up and see who this one is?

[nulldevice]

1 hour ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Thanks brother!

Well, now I'm in a bind.  I have another kakihan on file that I had listed as Hon’ami Kōtoku.  Are you able to look this kao up and see who this one is?

 

Hon’ami Kōon (光温)

[Naomasa1584]

14 hours ago, Mark S. said:

I don’t understand an attribution based on WHO OWNS a blade?  Doesn’t make any sense to me.  You evaluate the blade, not the person.  And there is a huge difference in attribution between Koto and Gunto.  Not sure how that happened.  Gunto is not a “worse attribution” if that is what it honestly is… unless of course you wanted him to say Masamune.  An attribution is what it is.  Our expectation is what makes it ‘good or bad’ in our minds.  And there is always the possibility that in some cases a really good Gunto is better than a really poor Koto depending on who is collecting what.  

 

   To me Gunto attribution would be one of the worst to me personally. As far as him changing his opinion, I think it's bc he thought I was a anime kid (not that there's anything wrong with that!) or just developed this interest yesterday. As he got to know me he realized I wasn't as ignorant as he seemed to think, bc he would say things like "you've seen too many movies when I had to tie the sleeves back as the tsuka can get caught it them. So only after he discarded his preconceived notions of me, did he give the blade the same benefit. Make sense? I really hope you were joking that you thought I would have believed it was a Masamune. Unless I took your comment wrong, you've only reinforced my believe that a lot of ppl come on here to argue and nitpick. Also, HE'S NOT THE ONE WHO SAID IT'S A KOTO!!! That was Ray Singers attribution. My former iai sensei thought maybe edo period.

 

23 hours ago, nulldevice said:

 

I think that is a Juyo Bunkazai sword and not the Heshigiri. The Heshigiri Hasebe with the koshirae as described looks like this:

 

The blade you showed is a JuBun Kunishige owned by the Kurokawa institute with ties back to Tokugawa Yorinobu. Both are relatively "straight" but one retains 0.9cm of sori and the other 1.0cm. Not a lot but again both are greatly shortened with mekugi ana present near the nakago-jiri on both examples. Adding a good 15-20cm to the nagasa of each of these would no doubt bring out a bit more sori. I think you'd find quite a few shinshinto smiths who tried to emulate these blades but only the famous 2 or 3 most likely who could approach them in quality. I'm not a big shinshinto guy so I don't know if any of them tried to emulate hitatsura utsushi mono of Hasebe school Kokuho and JuBun blades. A place for more study for me as I need to spend more time in shinshinto. 

Yes you are correct. Wiki is frequently wrong. I just looked at my book with 30 of the most famous nihonto owned by Daimyo. I was honestly wondering about the pattern on the blade I sent pic of as I couldn't see hitasuru at all, as I you noticed. I thought maybe it was easier to see in color. So the blade I sent you must be Echizen aoe, I don't pay a lot of attention to 1615 to 1863 Japanese history. Which I should, as there's probably a lot of interesting stories. It's just the time era I'm the least interested in.

[Naomasa1584]

On 5/27/2026 at 9:26 AM, Mark S. said:

I don’t understand an attribution based on WHO OWNS a blade?  Doesn’t make any sense to me.  You evaluate the blade, not the person.  And there is a huge difference in attribution between Koto and Gunto.  Not sure how that happened.  Gunto is not a “worse attribution” if that is what it honestly is… unless of course you wanted him to say Masamune.  An attribution is what it is.  Our expectation is what makes it ‘good or bad’ in our minds.  And there is always the possibility that in some cases a really good Gunto is better than a really poor Koto depending on who is collecting what.  

 

So I guess my explanation that my sensei thought I was a young no nothing and therefore thought I couldn't possibly have a nihonto didn't narrow it down enough.

    I'll say again, as he got to know me and saw I had an intense interest in samurai history nihonto's he seemed to slowly change his mind.

   I thought your comment pretty rude and sarcastic, which is why I'm being that way.

   If I've misunderstood you I sincerely apologize.

[Naomasa1584]

On 5/27/2026 at 12:19 AM, nulldevice said:

 

I think that is a Juyo Bunkazai sword and not the Heshigiri. The Heshigiri Hasebe with the koshirae as described looks like this:

 

The blade you showed is a JuBun Kunishige owned by the Kurokawa institute with ties back to Tokugawa Yorinobu. Both are relatively "straight" but one retains 0.9cm of sori and the other 1.0cm. Not a lot but again both are greatly shortened with mekugi ana present near the nakago-jiri on both examples. Adding a good 15-20cm to the nagasa of each of these would no doubt bring out a bit more sori. I think you'd find quite a few shinshinto smiths who tried to emulate these blades but only the famous 2 or 3 most likely who could approach them in quality. I'm not a big shinshinto guy so I don't know if any of them tried to emulate hitatsura utsushi mono of Hasebe school Kokuho and JuBun blades. A place for more study for me as I need to spend more time in shinshinto. 

I actually have a picture in a book but it's not very good quality. But the one I'm talking about has half of the saya covered in what looks like golden studs or spikes.

   I wanted to ask your opinion on something else. I only have 3 nihonto and all are o-suriage and mumei. Ray judged them to be late Muromachi which surprised me bc of the decent price, especially the one I got 14 years ago. Do you know if not being Ubu, and mumei could devalue that much where I could possibly get an unsigned bizen for 2 to 3000$? Bc my friends have this attitude like I'm delusional to even think they're nihonto.

      I'm determined to post the correct picture of Kuroda Yoshitakas sword now that I've blundered twice.

[Naomasa1584]

On 5/26/2026 at 3:32 PM, Scogg said:

“Straight = Kanbun” isn’t a hard rule, and nobody knowledgeable treats it as one. Sori is just one factor among many: proportions, kissaki, nakago, hamon, jigane, etc. Kantei has always been about the overall picture, not one isolated feature.

 

The existence of pre-1600 blades with shallow sori also doesn’t invalidate broader sugata trends across periods. Outliers don’t erase patterns, and those exceptions are hardly new revelations to people who study swords seriously.

 

Honestly, most people saying “probably later Edo” aren’t trying to diminish someone’s sword. They’re usually making the best call they can from limited photos. There are a lot of Edo blades out there. Nihontō kantei is difficult enough in hand, and often nearly impossible from photographs alone. There’s nothing inherently wrong with Kanbun era work or nidai smiths unless someone has already decided there is. Not every painting needs to be the Mona Lisa to have value.

 

I’m also not sure who you mean by “alleged experts”. If forum opinions aren’t satisfying, the obvious solution is to submit the sword for papers. 

-Sam

Oh, I said alleged experts bc on a forum I used to be part of this group were berating an older gentleman for misunderstanding them. One than said, why even ask experts if you ignore their advice.

   I agree with pretty much everything you've written, Edo is the most likey as they're going to be in the best quality. But my issue was myself and several others would be asked for more photos, to which we would comply, then never hear from them again. That gets frustrating. 

   I'm really not as much of a novice as I seem. I'm novice plus maybe. I seriously do study nihonto a lot and buy the books that aren't just cool pictures. My interest in Samurai history is what spurred on this obsession/interest. I hope I wasn't coming off as rude. I was in a bad mood that night, probably the worst time to post haha. Cheers

[eternal_newbie]

5 hours ago, Naomasa1584 said:

Do you know if not being Ubu, and mumei could devalue that much where I could possibly get an unsigned bizen for 2 to 3000$? Bc my friends have this attitude like I'm delusional to even think they're nihonto.

 

Yes, plenty of koto Bizen blades in that price range if you don't care about ubu nakago and signature. Especially if you're happy to get a shorter blade (65cm or less).

[Naomasa1584]

6 hours ago, eternal_newbie said:

 

Yes, plenty of koto Bizen blades in that price range if you don't care about ubu nakago and signature. Especially if you're happy to get a shorter blade (65cm or less).

Mines really close. 66cm but I could be mistaken. The one I believe older is 69.5 cm and was half the price of my other two. There was a pretty long time gap between first Nihonto 69.5 cm and the 66.3 cm one. Oh, and a 68 or 69cm one with a much more shallow curve than my first one. The first one's also really skinny and light and probably can't be polished again,

                             Andrew

 

[Naomasa1584]

On 3/18/2025 at 5:05 AM, Shoebedo808 said:

Here are the various symbols on the blade I would love to have interpreted:

 

I love that type of hi style. I doubt I'll ever be able to afford a Nihonto with them. Best I can probably hope for is a production katana with additional soe hi(I think that's what the smaller hi is called), or maybe not. I've been lucky so far. I don't have anything exceptional but all 3 were what I wanted at the time,

 .                           Andrew.

[Naomasa1584]

Just now, Naomasa1584 said:

I love that type of hi style. I doubt I'll ever be able to afford a Nihonto with them. Best I can probably hope for is a production katana with additional soe hi(I think that's what the smaller hi is called), or maybe not. I've been lucky so far. I don't have anything exceptional but all 3 were what I wanted at the time,

 .                           Andrew.

Oh, also love the hamon.

[Naomasa1584]

13 hours ago, Naomasa1584 said:

So I guess my explanation that my sensei thought I was a young know nothing and therefore thought I couldn't possibly have a nihonto didn't narrow it down enough.

    I'll say again, as he got to know me and saw I had an intense interest in samurai history nihonto's he seemed to slowly change his mind.

   I thought your comment pretty rude and sarcastic, which is why I'm being that way.

   If I've misunderstood you I sincerely apologize.

*know*

Edited June 20 by Naomasa1584
Wrong spelling

[Naomasa1584]

On 5/28/2026 at 12:10 AM, Naomasa1584 said:

   To me Gunto attribution would be one of the worst to me personally. As far as him changing his opinion, I think it's bc he thought I was a anime kid (not that there's anything wrong with that!) or just developed this interest yesterday. As he got to know me he realized I wasn't as ignorant as he seemed to think, bc he would say things like "you've seen too many movies when I had to tie the sleeves back as the tsuka can get caught it them. So only after he discarded his preconceived notions of me, did he give the blade the same benefit. Make sense? I really hope you were joking that you thought I would have believed it was a Masamune. Unless I took your comment wrong, you've only reinforced my believe that a lot of ppl come on here to argue and nitpick. Also, HE'S NOT THE ONE WHO SAID IT'S A KOTO!!! That was Ray Singers attribution. My former iai sensei thought maybe edo period.

 

Yes you are correct. Wiki is frequently wrong. I just looked at my book with 30 of the most famous nihonto owned by Daimyo. I was honestly wondering about the pattern on the blade I sent pic of as I couldn't see hitasuru at all, as I you noticed. I thought maybe it was easier to see in color. So the blade I sent you must be Echizen aoe, I don't pay a lot of attention to 1615 to 1863 Japanese history. Which I should, as there's probably a lot of interesting stories. It's just the time era I'm the least interested in.

Isn't a blade owned by Uesugi Kenshin the most famous, but not most expensive Nihonto? I'm pretty sure it's his Bizen Ichimonji that many have tried to emulate it's insane hamon. But if I remember correctly, it still can't be reproduced in a decent way. This book was somewhat old so someone may have succeeded by now,

                               Andrew.

[eternal_newbie]

39 minutes ago, Naomasa1584 said:

I'm pretty sure it's his Bizen Ichimonji that many have tried to emulate it's insane hamon. But if I remember correctly, it still can't be reproduced in a decent way. This book was somewhat old so someone may have succeeded by now

 

I believe you are thinking of the Yamatorige/Sanchomo, a sword attributed to Fukuoka Ichimonji. The mukansa smith Ono Yoshimitsu is the closest, being able to reliably reproduce the hamon, but still somewhat lacking when it comes to the equally impressive utsuri on the original.

[Naomasa1584]

2 minutes ago, eternal_newbie said:

 

I believe you are thinking of the Yamatorige/Sanchomo, a sword attributed to Fukuoka Ichimonji. The mukansa smith Ono Yoshimitsu is the closest, being able to reliably reproduce the hamon, but still somewhat lacking when it comes to the equally impressive utsuri on the original.

It's this one, correct? It's my wife's favorite Nihonto, and the sword referred to as Ishida Masamune. A lot of my history books contradict each other so I'm not completely sure if he gave it to Yuki Hideyasu as a reward for safely escorting him back to Sawayama.

     Is Ono Yoshimitsu one of the revered Edo smiths? I'm only asking bc as I said there's so much contradicting info.

                   Andrew.

[eternal_newbie]

3 minutes ago, Naomasa1584 said:

It's this one, correct?

 

That is indeed the one, and it is even more awe-inspiring in person. Ono Yoshimitsu is a modern-day smith who is known for his replicas of the Yamatorige, and considered to be one of the top candidates for being made into a new Living National Treasure (ningen kokuho) should the NBTHK decide to start doing so again.

 

https://www.samuraisword.com/gallery/swords/ono-yoshimitsu-with-his-saka-choji/

https://yakiba.com/yoshimitsu-ono/

https://iidakoendo.com/16554/

https://www.facebook.com/The.Japanese.Sword/videos/katana-by-master-swordsmith-ono-yoshimitsu-this-blade-is-currently-on-display-at/951158384091769/

[Joel Lundqvist]

On 5/26/2026 at 11:50 PM, Naomasa1584 said:

That's a good point Eternal_Newbie. bc it probably would be far worst to overshoot and them be disappointed. I should've realized fr personal experience. I have this small sword that even my Iai Sensei gave me the worse attribution of all, in his opinion, which was that it was gunto. But the more I trained with him bc it was a personal trainer he seemed to start changing his mind about it. Maybe he thought bc I was a beginner to Iai at that time I couldn't possibly have an Iai of any consequence. But Ray, whose opinion I trust very much, said based on all the attributes, it was definitely Koto, he said probably earlier then 1500s which was way more then I could've hoped. I think some ppl have it in their head that if a katana isn't covered in rust or other signs of wear, it must be new. I wonder if European swords look that way bc of the mindset of not touching antiques at all. Like that polishing a sword would be unheard of, like with antique furniture. Thanx for input

The swords of the kings on museum in europe is exelent condition, the swords used by troops and just follow in family's property is neglected for in europe it was a Tool of war, not often regarded as fine art, 

[eternal_newbie]

8 minutes ago, Joel Lundqvist said:

The swords of the kings on museum in europe is exelent condition, the swords used by troops and just follow in family's property is neglected for in europe it was a Tool of war, not often regarded as fine art, 

 

Japanese equivalent of this phenomenon: https://web.archive.org/web/20210126050727/https://blog.yuhindo.com/your-swords-not-samurai-swords-daimyo-swords/