Dereks

There were different ways to forge a tsuba. Some of them have 2-3 layers, with the upper crust being the top layer. Some not folded. Some inlays are applied on a heated plate so it affects upper layer as well. Two of the tsuba with missing zogan are applied to a prepared area. The other one, with the missing shi shi, is completely different.

That further corroded area, that layer, is the same one on your first tsuba! That is the answer to your question. Here, I'll put X on them now. It is not molten iron. Just the upper crust flaked off!

I don't need to think, I can see. Your question was already answered on the first comment but I don't understand why you can't accept it. Working on a new book maybe? Best.

Dan, See the circled area, that is the exact layer with your first tsuba. On this example, it is corroded nicely, so you don't see the shiny metal.

Dan, Please stop thinking.

Yours might be paint or urushi as well..doesn't really matter.

Most of these motifs attached to tsuba are made of softer metals. They are carved separately first and then soldered onto the tsuba using various techniques. The filling is most likely lead. Lead turns red under certain amounts of heat, or one side may have just been painted with urushi. Someone may have experimented with this piece recently, as it’s a very low-end tsuba, which makes it perfect for experimentation.

Dan, I don’t think there’s anything unusual about this tsuba; you might be overthinking it a bit. And, of course, the motif wasn’t hand-carved on the tsuba.

It popped up again

Gotcha! Thank you very much.

Quick question, what makes / swordsmith tsuba special? It is pretty plane as i would expect from a non artist but why would anyone ask tsuba from a swordsmith instead of tsuba artist? Are these rare?

I’m really tired of seeing this thread pop up everyday.

Hey Dan, Is this you? https://www.amazon.c...3-1868/dp/B0CTJ4WXHF

Hello Dan, There were many different patination methods, each using unique formulas. Additionally, some tsuba were painted with urushi . If you look at the flowers on top, you might notice they are covered with something. This suggests the tsuba was likely rusted, and the surface was coated with paint or urushi to protect it. The flaked-off parts you see are likely a combination of the rusted layer and the paint.

Brainstorming about hundreds of years back is not the right way to prove this. Then I could say "If they couldn't afford a new one, they probably bought second hand..and they added some copper stuff(sorry i don't know it's name) to seppa dai and made it fit to their swords" Maybe some people did try to make cast iron tsuba during the Edo period but found them to be very fragile, so they stopped. And let’s say you came across some of those early experimental pieces—there you have it: an Edo-period cast iron tsuba. So what? Is it really going to change anything? Right now, people with so much more experience than me says they didn't see any cast iron tsuba from the EDO period. If I'm going to contradict them, I need something solid. To do that, I need years of experience. So, as of this moment, who am i to do that. Even if I look at hundreds of tsuba on Google and post some pictures here that appear to be cast iron, they’ll ask me to prove it—and I won’t be able to. And I’m not going to contradict or fight them just because they have a different opinion. If I need to prove this, I’ll need time and access to the required information. And I won’t be finding that information in English books or websites. As I said, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter much(for me). I'd rather spending my time learning what is already available and better. Thanks

Yes, I read the whole thread, and my answer is: I don’t know. I don’t have access to old books in Japanese libraries, and I don’t know Japanese. I believe that’s where the answer lies—not here. However, from what I’ve read, if I were to make a guess, the Edo period was a time of peace, and they didn’t need to make tsuba in bulk as they did in earlier periods. During the Edo period, tsuba became more like jewelry—something to make one stand out. Additionally, tsuba makers had much more time to practice their craft and come up with new ideas. So, I believe tsuba makers invested their time in quality rather than rushing their work. That was probably the best way to attract new customers. If they had made cast iron tsuba, I’m sure clients would have noticed the difference, and none of them would have wanted to lose customers. So, maybe they did, or maybe they didn’t. And quite honestly, it doesn’t matter much.

The papered tsuba in your previous post is in good condition, so it must have been well taken care of and protected. In your last post, first tsuba is in better condition than the second one. Second one is corroded and patina is eaten out.. that's the reason seppa dai looks different.

I've just started learning but I don't think the last tsuba is cast. Also the texture feels normal to my eyes, happens with patination process and with age! So it's probably an older Tsuba. Second one seems late edo, also lacquered on smooth iron but I may be wrong.

Hey Dan, i think those are not the same mon.

How do you even know these were owned and wore as a set by the same person?

Excellent, Okan! Please let me know if you ever want to sell this.

I’m a new collector and am currently fixing to buy my first Tsuba from a Japanese dealer. I’ve been reading the Tsuba section for some time now, and as John stated, my first Tsuba will be a papered one. Not Tokubetsu Hozon, as they are very expensive, but a regular NBTHK Hozon. It is $400. It will be a good piece for learning and studying. This way, as a beginner, I will know exactly what I’m buying. ps: Last month, I used ebay to buy my first tsuba book.

@Dan tsuba "It's quite a harmless addiction, I must say" Just to be clear, it was meant for you.

No, not a dealer, but this very forum. Actually, the idea was given about swords, not tsuba, but I thought the same rule might apply to both. The idea was that instead of buying many $1k–$2k swords, I should buy one really good sword. - It’s quite a harmless addiction, I must say.

This was exactly my point! If I don’t handle some good pieces, how can I differentiate them from lower-level work? Pictures sometimes don’t do them justice, and I can’t zoom in enough to see the details.