UrQuattro

Hey, I am still in san Francisco, so thank you so much! I should be able to make it, and once I do, I'll post here about what people think in person. Michael

The collar is not loose at all, actually. And trust me, my grandfather would not have, and never did take it to someone for an appraisal. To him, it was just a souvenir from the war, not something that was monetarily valuable. I know that some places will switch the blade. But that never happened here. This is the same blade and shirasaya that came back with him from the war. The only person that has ever been interested in the history and value of this sword in my family is me, actually. After coming back from the war, my grandfather became a cop in san Francisco, and died at the age of fifty. My dad was an assistance district attorney for san Francisco. I'm the only one who didnt go in to law. Having said that, knowing the reputation of my grandfather as just a "bit" of a racist, the value to him of the sword would have been that "we" won and "they" lost. Michael

So you guys are saying that in ww2, my grandfather obtained, somehow (I never believed the fact that he got it from a soldier), in Japan, a sword in a real casing, but a fake chinese sword? I just seem to not be able to make sense of that... When did china start producing fakes of the Japanese katanas? Could this be the sword of a civilian from Japan? I don't know... It seems that a bunch of you think it's real and a bunch don't. I dunno what to think. Michael

Alright, I just put the pictures up on photobucket. Here's the link to the album. With a little bonus pic of me driving my '81 Porsche 911 on the track at infineon recently. http://s1135.photobucket.com/albums/m62 ... napbucket/ I'm still only iPhone, so I don't know if the pics are of a decent size. If they are still not good, I can email the raw ones, which are a couple megs each to someone, and that would solve the size problem. :-) Michael

Ok... I'm confused. I was told on another board that the shurisaya is not the valuable part, so why go through the trouble of reshaping a blade. In the shurisaya, there is a small area that is larger and is shaped to receive the brass collar, which then stabilizes the blade in place, with no movement. It's just sounding like a lot of effort to forge a WW2 blade DURING WW2... Michael

Okay, if it will help, I can remove the brass sleeve (I'm sorry I'm really slow on the pickup of the terms for everything). I figure that it can be removed, but I don't know how to do it. And I'm worried about damaging it or the blade. I'm concerned that the rust has caused it to seize on there. But if it isn't that bad, I am very mechanically inclined, so, how do I remove it. And I'm sorry about the pictures, I can set up a photobucket account, or I can email the full sized ones to someone that could post for me. Michael

I just took a few more pictures of the naked blade and the shirasaya next to it: The full picture of both http://gallery.me.com/ur.quattro/100001 ... casing.jpg This is a closeup on the tang next to the full shirasaya http://gallery.me.com/ur.quattro/100001 ... sheath.jpg Here's the closeup of the tang with the handle next to it, this time the sides arent reversed: http://gallery.me.com/ur.quattro/100001/tang_handle.jpg Hopefully these will help a little more. Also, under bright lighting, the rust is not as dense as I thought. You can see some glimpses of the steel through it, on both sides, but I couldn't really capture it with my iPhone, which is all I'm working with here. My computer isn't working. So I'm sorry if the shots aren't clear. Thanks for your continued interest. Michael

Oh, and I was just going through my pictures of the sword. The picture of the handle next to the tang looks funny because the "right" side of the sword is face up while the "left" side of the handle is face up, making it look like the curvature is all off. Does that change any minds? Michael

Huh, So, it seems to be either a poor repair job on a sword, or a "fake" in a real case. So... Here's the quandary. Knowing that it DEFINITELY was obtained by my grandfather during the war, who was making fakes then? And what is it about the fit that strikes you as wrong? When I slide thhe blade into the case, it fits perfectly when the brass part slides in to place. Its never been touched by anyone to clean it up or anything once he brought it home, so any work on it would have had to take place prior to that. As far as the holes for the peg? What is suspicious about it? I'm obviously very interested intrying to figure this thing out and know what I have. I really, really appreciate all of your help with this. Thank you. Michael

That's interesting that you mention the tip, as that is one of the issues that the other gentleman had. What is it about the tip that is different? Can you think of why someone would change the original shape, or maybe it's that that is it's original shape and maybe was made by a lesser wordsmith, or it was a mistake? I hate to ask again, but do you think it is worth it to have it restored and polished up properly. This sword is lacking that wavy line (I know there is a term for it) that I see on all of the other swords I've looked at. I know that was a function of the usage of different kinds of steel, and is characteristic to the maker. It does seem logical that it is a real Japanese sword, I never really thought otherwise. I just dont know if the monetary value is around a hundred bucks, or if by default of being "real," it is worth much more. I also don't know if it is a good thing to leave it as is, or have it professionally restored. Is it better with the spots of corrosion and lack of fine polish, or would it be better to try to bring it back to original condition. Again, thank you for the information. Before you guys responded, I had nothing, now I'm finally learning about it. Michael

Okie, so, now that the translation is done, can anyone help me out with the blade itself? There was a bit of skepticism on bladeforums regarding the authenticity of the sword itself, and possibly the case, thinking that it could be a chinese knockoff. The person thought that the patina of the rust on the tang looked faked. But I know that my grandfather brought it back from Japan and the war, so there must be some level of authenticity to it. So, I'm really hoping that someone who looks in this topic can maybe help out in that department. I am puzzled by the lack of a maker's mark, as every other one seems to have them. I'd love to hear about the vintage... I don't expect it to be older than the war, of course, but ya never know. Also, I would really like to get it restored, but I know that doing that right is an expensive process. I don't want to put a bunch of money in to restoring a "fake" sword. So if anyone has an estimate on value, I'd be most appreciative. I have zero intentions of ever selling it, but when I end up passing it down, I'd like to have it in worthy condition. So, yah. That's about it. Thanks again in advance, I really appreciate it. Michael

Wow, that is one big mystery solved now. My dad had always wondered, too, what was written on it. Thank you so much! I do have to sayy though, that knowing the name and address of the former owner, and knowing it is written on the case, is a little sobering. It really makes it a lot more "personal" ya know? Before, I thought that my grandfather probably bought it and had our family name put on it, but I guess not. Michael

Some more info about my grandfather during the war. I going a comic he drew as a letter to my grandmother, I noticed on the cartoon he drew, dated may 16, 1944, on the U. S. S. Kitkun Bay. It's mission was to the Mariana and palaua Islands campaign. Also the Phillipines Campaign, battle off samar, operation magic carpet. It ended up in Japan in '46 in th hakkaido and Honshu to take on pow's, along with having a few Japanese planes crashing on it's deck prior to that. Michael

Hey all, Firstly, I'm brand new here and this is my first post. I really hope I chose the right forum. I was referred here from bladeforums. I really appreciate your help with this. So, the story behind this sword from what I remember is that, when my grandfather was in ww2 as a member of the navy, he got it in Japan. Supposedly he pulled it off of a dead guy, but I kinda figure that story is more than slightly embellished.* It was passed down to my father from him and a few years ago, down to me.* Unfortunately, it's condition isn't particularly good. The blade has chips on the edge of the tip, and black spots of corrosion on it. The edge is quite sharp, able to cut through paper and such like my higher end new knives. I know a little bit about swords, but not much at all.* I looked at the tang (I know there should be another name for it) and found no markings that would be signatures. The original rust is there and hasn't been cleaned off. There are two holes in it, one is where the small bamboo "dowel"goes. It's been removed before, poorly I might add, and the ink that was on it is no longer present.* The whole scabbard and handle is made of bamboo it seems, but I'm not sure.* Anyway, Id REALLY LOVE to find out what it says on the sheath. Oh, and it appears to have a tanto tip, and the full length of the sword from the tip to the end of the handle is almost 36"... I'll post a few pics. I hope someone can give me info about it's origin, history, the message written on it and I suppose if there is any monetary value, though I can tell you that it's sentimental value is ginormous. I have it mounted on the wall above the door to my bedroom, where I can see it as I fall asleep at night. Hehe.* Thanks in advance.* This one is in the sheath with a measuring tape http://gallery.me.com/ur.quattro/100001 ... easure.jpg This is with it off: http://gallery.me.com/ur.quattro/100001 ... easure.jpg Here is a closeup of the grind of the tip: http://gallery.me.com/ur.quattro/100001/tantogrind.jpg The writing on the handle: http://gallery.me.com/ur.quattro/100001 ... riting.jpg First part of writing on sheath: http://gallery.me.com/ur.quattro/100001 ... riting.jpg Second section of writing on sheath: http://gallery.me.com/ur.quattro/100001 ... riting.jpg "left" side of Nagato along with a tape measure for scale: http://gallery.me.com/ur.quattro/100001/tangmeasure.jpg Here's the other side: http://gallery.me.com/ur.quattro/100001/tangright.jpg A closeup view: http://gallery.me.com/ur.quattro/100001/tangclose.jpg The Nagato with handle: http://gallery.me.com/ur.quattro/100001 ... sheath.jpg The spine: http://gallery.me.com/ur.quattro/100001/tangback.jpg That's it, folks. The only other place I can think of a signature being is under the brass part. But i don't have the skill or courage for that - if it's possible anyway. I hope that these are enough. Thanks in advance to everyone. Michael