Help analyzing this tanto

[williu]

Hi! I've been lurking here for some time but finally decided to post and take advantage of the amount of knowledge that exists here among the members. I'm hoping you can help me with any information or ideas about this tanto that my father bought some decades ago. The edge has a few dents and the blade itself looks like it hasn't been too well taken care of. I am assuming that maybe the handle and fittings (which are very tight and seem well made) are newer than the blade? 

 

Do you guys have any rough guesses about the age? Any general info about this kind of tanto? I would deeply appreciate any information or qualified guesses.

 

Thank you!

[atm]

Welcome to NMB @williu! It is hard to tell much from your photos. Please look at the third to last post in this thread about pictures that will help us: Photo tips

[williu]

Thank you very much Adam! Here are some new photos, but I'm not sure if they will be able to bring any more clarity... 

 

 

[Rivkin]

Outline of boshi would be really helpful if you can catch it. There are couple of options and it would negate some of them. Its most likely something Yamato (Mino) derived, the question if kaeri is long, sharp and thin, or not.

Edited March 7 by Rivkin

[williu]

18 minutes ago, Rivkin said:

Outline of boshi would be really helpful if you can catch it. There are couple of options and it would negate some of them. Its most likely something Yamato (Mino) derived, the question if kaeri is long, sharp and thin, or not.

 

Thank you very much for your response. Would this photo be of any help at all? Or do you have any suggestions for how I should take a better photo?

[Rivkin]

Makes my life harder because its not what I expected. Why these guys have to be like that...

Its not enough to make any definitive judgement, unfortunately.

But as a wild guess, end of Muromachi, early Edo.

School... Bungo.

 

[williu]

1 hour ago, Rivkin said:

But as a wild guess, end of Muromachi, early Edo.

School... Bungo.

 

 

Thank you very much for that. If you don't mind, what are the indicators that makes you guess that it is that old? Is it the look of the surface of the steel, the shape, or something else? Since I am trying to learn more, any input is deeply appreciated. 

[Lewis B]

The overall shape or sugata, the length of the blade, sori, shape of the kissaki and nakago, patina on nakago are often used as indicators of age and period of production. Take a look at the Sue Soshu yoroi-doshi tanto in the FS section I just acquired and you'll see some similarities. Based on my research that tanto is late work by 3rd gen Fuyuhiro putting the date around mid 1500's, towards the end of the Muromachi.

[williu]

51 minutes ago, Lewis B said:

The overall shape or sugata, the length of the blade, sori, shape of the kissaki and nakago, patina on nakago are often used as indicators of age and period of production. Take a look at the Sue Soshu yoroi-doshi tanto in the FS section I just acquired and you'll see some similarities. Based on my research that tanto is late work by 3rd gen Fuyuhiro putting the date around mid 1500's, towards the end of the Muromachi.

 

Thank you Lewis. Based on that, and the previous comment from Kirill, I am interpreting it as if it is at least possible that the blade is a kotō or a shintō. I'll try to take better photos in the near future.

[Rivkin]

19 hours ago, williu said:

 

Thank you very much for that. If you don't mind, what are the indicators that makes you guess that it is that old? Is it the look of the surface of the steel, the shape, or something else? Since I am trying to learn more, any input is deeply appreciated. 

Late Muromachi or Kambun shinto are default attributions if its not Showa or shinshinto... Basically 90% of the remaining blades will fall into those categories.

Sugata here is kind of generic. The nakago shape with its width, no sori... that existed for a long time and made its appearance now and then.

Nakago ana is a bit off-circle. Its a good indicator its koto.

Patina... I just dealt with Nambokucho tanto who had such patina. I've seen shinto blades with darker. So nothing conclusive, but early shinto-late Muromachi is within realistic.

It has considerable ware all along the blade, it looks like masame is strong here... hamon has some hotsure, so most likely this is something in Yamato line.

It does not have typical deep thin kaeri which we see on a lot of work like Owari. 

 

The only factor that remains is yasurime. And this one is a bit garbled, but it almost look higaki... or takanoha. Higaki or takanoha with earlier work would tent towards Yamato, with later towards Mino. If its not higaki, I would lean towards something like Bungo. 

 

Edited March 9 by Rivkin

[williu]

5 hours ago, Rivkin said:

Late Muromachi or Kambun shinto are default attributions if its not Showa or shinshinto... Basically 90% of the remaining blades will fall into those categories.

Sugata here is kind of generic. The nakago shape with its width, no sori... that existed for a long time and made its appearance now and then.

Nakago ana is a bit off-circle. Its a good indicator its koto.

Patina... I just dealt with Nambokucho tanto who had such patina. I've seen shinto blades with darker. So nothing conclusive, but early shinto-late Muromachi is within realistic.

It has considerable ware all along the blade, it looks like masame is strong here... hamon has some hotsure, so most likely this is something in Yamato line.

It does not have typical deep thin kaeri which we see on a lot of work like Owari. 

 

The only factor that remains is yasurime. And this one is a bit garbled, but it almost look higaki... or takanoha. Higaki or takanoha with earlier work would tent towards Yamato, with later towards Mino. If its not higaki, I would lean towards something like Bungo. 

 

 

Kirill, I am deeply appreciative of that extensive analysis. Really, thank you for this. This helps so much in the learning process.