Harlekin2xs Posted February 26 Report Posted February 26 Hello Everyone! I´m new to the board and on the hunt for my first nihonto. Currently i think about these 2: https://eirakudo.shop/521344 https://www.aoijapan.com/katana-fuyuhiro-the-first-gennbthk-tokubetsu-hozon-token-consignment-sale/ What do you think about these? I know i´m drawn to soshu style blades and bigger kissaki, nice jihada, chaotic hamons with a lot going on. Just from a collector perspective which one would you pick and why? Thanks in advance, be gentle with a newbie Chris 2 Quote
atm Posted February 26 Report Posted February 26 Welcome to NMB, @Harlekin2xs. If you like Soshu blades, I'm not sure that I'd be focused on the two you've identified. The Kaneuji is not the same as Shizu Kaneuji of Soshu den (Eirakudo's description is a bit confusing on that point) and its hamon looks very one-dimensional to me. Good quality Soshu has a three-dimensional hamon with lots of activity inside the hamon. What is your budget? Knowing that might help us point you toward blades that better fit your collecting interest. If you are new to this hobby, many advise to take your time before purchasing a sword. That's because many (myself included) have regretted our first sword purchase as we gained knowledge. Taking time to study swords, especially in person, and increasing your knowledge of swords is invaluable to making smart collecting decisions and finding what truly appeals to you. There are lots of swords out there, so you have plenty of time to find the right first purchase. 4 1 1 Quote
Rivkin Posted February 27 Report Posted February 27 My Japanese skills are meager, but both postings are great examples of obfuscation. Eirakudo sword is papered to Seki Kaneuji. Very indirect relation to Nambokucho Kaneuji, who dominates the description. Late Muromachi work, its ok but a bit bland and ambitious. Fuyuhiro - nowhere it says this is the first generation. Yes, its probably Tensho period work. Again its not real quality, but beginner friendly in terms of being easy to appreciate, showy. 3 Quote
eternal_newbie Posted February 27 Report Posted February 27 1 hour ago, Rivkin said: Eirakudo sword is papered to Seki Kaneuji. Very indirect relation to Nambokucho Kaneuji This sort of obfuscation is surprisingly common on Japanese dealer websites, more so than the English dealers who usually try to educate the buyer (eBay/auction sellers excepted, obviously). They'll put some verbiage about the most famous/sought after smith in the line that the blade belongs to, and leave it to the buyer to realize that the stated era the blade is from doesn't match said smith (or to read the attached papers and note the specified era or generation). 4 Quote
oli Posted February 27 Report Posted February 27 Hi, before you buy online, i would advise to visit the Japan Art Fair (https://www.japanartfair.com) . There are a lot of Dealers from around the world and you can have a look on the blades in real. Regards Oli 2 Quote
Harlekin2xs Posted February 27 Author Report Posted February 27 Thanks everybody for the reply and the feedback. Especially for the eirakudo listing. I was sceptical on the information given, I´m not able to read or translate the nbthk paper nor the sayagaki myself, but i asked several AI to do so, and it seems to not match what they described in the listing. And @atm @Rivkin pointed out correctly, is very misleading and not strenghtening the trust in buying this. Aoi on the other hand offered sayagaki from Mr. Tanobe sensei at a little extra cost, and they seemed more honest with the information given. I thought this would make that blade a little more interesting. They said their attribution to fuyuhiro (1st gen) is from their experience and not from the nbthk paper when i asked, and they trust that Mr Tanobe sensei would agree with their estimate. As for budget, i was looking at blades between 0 and 1600000 yen. So there will be something left for import taxes, shipping and vat. which adds up quickly. Wish would be early edo period and below (muromachi, nanbokucho..). This probably already limits the amount of nihonto available, even more so if you look at my "wishlist" of specs. If it came with a nice shirasaya and a well made sayagaki i´d be very happy. I´m aware that there are modern smiths too which make very nice blades, sometimes with soshu influence. Those would be the nicest probably because of their overall condition and less polishing and scratches and such over the decades. Still i like having a piece with history in hand, just to imagine what it might have seen over the hundreds of years it was appreciated by other individuals. Anyway, in november last year i was in Japan for the first time, so i went to every place that had swords on display that i could find. Saw a lot of nice blades, held none made tons of pictures and videos, but quickly realized that the blades who i would desire most, are likely out of budget. I found out that my taste in anything quickly turns up with the more expensive items... I´ve been collecting knives for years and oh you can get very pricey with them as well depending on materials and craftsmenship and so on. Until now, i have a tanto without papers from aoi, and a yari (also no papers) from touken komachi which is in the process of getting a koshirae made. I´m trying to get familiar with all the terms of nihonto through reading: The connoisseur´s book of Japanese swords and so on. https://archive.org/details/connoisseursbook0000naga/page/n11/mode/1up Anyway, just by looking at blades i quickly realized that i like: Kissaki: chu-kissaki and better o-kissaki Jihada: mokume-hada or itame-hada Hamon: Hitatsura, Midare, choji and variations of those Lenght: 66cm plus (just a personal preference) I guess i´m looking at the usual suspects online. I´ve also checked in with unique japans mailing list, but missed 3 blades already, because the seem to sell within hours or even minutes after release, or are simply out of budget. Probably because of my limited budget and desired specs, nihonto like that don´t show up that often online, and if they do they sell quickly. Hence i started looking at other nihonto that tick some boxes and are as close to what i desire as they get. Thanks again for reading and your education. 2 1 Quote
eternal_newbie Posted February 27 Report Posted February 27 Quote Kissaki: chu-kissaki and better o-kissaki Jihada: mokume-hada or itame-hada Hamon: Hitatsura, Midare, choji and variations of those Lenght: 66cm plus (just a personal preference) For 1.6M yen you'll have plenty of good options for a first sword matching that list, even if you just limit yourself to koto Soshu. Take as much time as you need to better understand the market and your own preferences, and don't be afraid to post in the WTB forum here as well; there are many members who have, or have access to, blades that might interest you within those parameters and budget. 1 1 Quote
anguilla1980 Posted February 27 Report Posted February 27 (edited) I'm VERY new to the hobby, and only recently made my first purchase, so take what I say with a grain of salt for sure... That said, when I look at those images of each blade, both appear to show little to no clearly defined utsuri (very fine pearlite and like an echo of the hamon in the ji). In the first link (Kaneuji) blade image, the ji appears relatively uniform without the characteristic pale, shadow-like reflection pattern running parallel to the hamon. There are activity lines and some surface texture, but I do not see a distinct midare-utsuri, bo-utsuri, or shirake-utsuri formation. If present, it is extremely faint. In the second link (Fuyuhiro) blade image, especially in the full-length composite views, the ji also looks clean and fairly homogeneous. The hamon is visible and active, but the area between the hamon and the shinogi does not display the soft, misty secondary pattern typically associated with strong utsuri. Again, if any utsuri exists, it would be very weak. My taste, especially appreciating in person, swings towards enjoying a very dense and active jihada and lots of utsuri. So I would pass on these, mostly due to the lack of utsuri. Speaking to Adam's comment about the hamon being very one-dimensional, I absolutely agree. The hataraki within the yakiba of the hamon is very restrained and nearly non-existent. Another huge knock in my book. Again, all personal taste. But me, I always would put these attributes over the shape of the hamon line, as they are far more fascinating to study in person and in different light. You always see something different. To me a fancy hamon line is like "eh", sure it's striking from a distance, but if the blade lacks depth in the other aspects I mentioned, I pass. Rohan is absolutely right, with your budget, you can find many really great blades. So continue to be patient and persistent in your search. I'll lastly say that there are other, more technical attributes to a blade that I personally look for to tick my boxes, that being an ubu nakago (un-cut tang, so none of the mei is missing), and a date. A date is usually, from what I've read, an indication that it was a commissioned blade of higher craftsmenship in the workshop. A blade that also includes a really good quality and period Koshirae can be a big plus if you are going to display it (for me anyway), but by all means, always buy based on the blade attributes. Edited February 27 by anguilla1980 1 Quote
Harlekin2xs Posted February 27 Author Report Posted February 27 Thanks for all the statements and opinions, that was exactly what i was looking for. Do you have any suggestions on "search terms" or keywords when siftig through the several vendors? Unfortunately this year i´m already away for the https://www.japanartfair.com/ So nothing i can take a look in person currently. I have to say unique Japan offers the best pictures and descriptions of any vendor that i´ve seen, would love to get something like those more often. @anguilla1980 i understand you in regards of utsuri and and hamon. for me its also not so much the line, but from the blades i´ve seen the types of hamon i mentioned usually have the most going on in the utsuri with ashi and such. Quote
Lewis B Posted February 27 Report Posted February 27 14 minutes ago, Harlekin2xs said: Thanks for all the statements and opinions, that was exactly what i was looking for. Do you have any suggestions on "search terms" or keywords when siftig through the several vendors? Unfortunately this year i´m already away for the https://www.japanartfair.com/ So nothing i can take a look in person currently. I have to say unique Japan offers the best pictures and descriptions of any vendor that i´ve seen, would love to get something like those more often. @anguilla1980 i understand you in regards of utsuri and and hamon. for me its also not so much the line, but from the blades i´ve seen the types of hamon i mentioned usually have the most going on in the utsuri with ashi and such. If you can, think about attending an NBTHK-EB meeting which are held a couple times a year in Manching, Germany. I think many Austrians attend this event and you'll get to see some top quality blades, sometimes if you're lucky grandmaster pieces. 1 Quote
Harlekin2xs Posted February 27 Author Report Posted February 27 Just to give you some examples fo visual things that i get attracted to: https://www.giapponeserie.com/nihonto5.htm This one ticks a lot of boxes. Just not the period and it doesn´t come with papers. Plus, i see something that looks like a crack starting at the mune machi, a silver line visible on both sides. So i believe that might be why it is not papered... again i might be completely wrong. https://www.nipponto.co.jp/swords2/KT221833.htm the pictures that show it under light, the blade itself faint and in need of a polish. but i might be wrong with that. https://www.nipponto.co.jp/swords11/NT334721.htm Hamon under light looks pale, but jihada and the hamon line itself looks nice.. 1 Quote
oli Posted February 27 Report Posted February 27 Not sure what you looking for, maybe you should also read some books. I recommend koto-shi, shinto-shi, shinshinto-shi (last two also written in german) . For 1,6m yen you can get some very nice swords, It seems you like Shoshu/Mino-den, you can find a lot of in shinto. Quote
klee Posted February 27 Report Posted February 27 @Harlekin2xs I know this will be way over budget but it was the 1st item that popped in my mind when you listed your preference https://www.nipponto.co.jp/swords12/JT327820.htm But yea 1.6M yen will get you something very nice indeed Best of luck and I ll post here if I see anything Quote
oli Posted February 27 Report Posted February 27 Koto: https://eirakudo.shop/718723 https://www.touken-matsumoto.jp/en/product/shousai/KA-0787 (sold but Kanenobu, would fits in you pricelimit) Shinto: https://www.aoijapan.com/katana-tango-no-kami-kanemichi-nbthk-tokubetsu-hozon-token/ Shinshinto: https://www.aoijapan.com/katana-sumi-hidekuni-tan-korenbthk-tokubetsu-hozon-token/ Quote
Lewis B Posted February 27 Report Posted February 27 41 minutes ago, klee said: @Harlekin2xs I know this will be way over budget but it was the 1st item that popped in my mind when you listed your preference https://www.nipponto.co.jp/swords12/JT327820.htm But yea 1.6M yen will get you something very nice indeed Best of luck and I ll post here if I see anything First time I've seen a modification to a Zufu 36 years after it was issued. What is the asking price? As an aside I would not recommend a Juyo and above level blade as a 1st purchase. You don't want to make your beginner mistakes on these blades. 1 Quote
klee Posted February 27 Report Posted February 27 (edited) Hi @Lewis B Not sure what the asking price is since they dont list them for high value items unfortunately. Im a big fan of o-kissaki myself so this listing really stuck with me Edited February 27 by klee Quote
Lewis B Posted February 27 Report Posted February 27 23 minutes ago, klee said: Im a big fan of o-kissaki myself so this listing really stuck with me It definitely makes a statement. Oozes Nanbokucho era Quote
Harlekin2xs Posted February 27 Author Report Posted February 27 31 minutes ago, klee said: Hi @Lewis B Not sure what the asking price is since they dont list them for high value items unfortunately. Im a big fan of o-kissaki myself so this listing really stuck with me Totally my taste - well aware it most likely is at least double my budget or even more 🙈 Quote
Harlekin2xs Posted February 27 Author Report Posted February 27 1 hour ago, klee said: @Harlekin2xs I know this will be way over budget but it was the 1st item that popped in my mind when you listed your preference https://www.nipponto.co.jp/swords12/JT327820.htm But yea 1.6M yen will get you something very nice indeed Best of luck and I ll post here if I see anything Lovely item - i don’t even dare to ask them for a price 😅 Quote
nulldevice Posted February 27 Report Posted February 27 This doesn't satisfy the o-kissaki requirement but there is a TH Kencho for sale on Aoi as well for 1.7M JPY. I think it satisfies the other requirements of yours TH - Den Kanenaga - Aoi Art 1 Quote
Harlekin2xs Posted February 27 Author Report Posted February 27 54 minutes ago, oli said: Koto: https://eirakudo.shop/718723 https://www.touken-matsumoto.jp/en/product/shousai/KA-0787 (sold but Kanenobu, would fits in you pricelimit) Shinto: https://www.aoijapan.com/katana-tango-no-kami-kanemichi-nbthk-tokubetsu-hozon-token/ Shinshinto: https://www.aoijapan.com/katana-sumi-hidekuni-tan-korenbthk-tokubetsu-hozon-token/ Thanks for these, the 2 aoi i had seen on my hunt. The shinto at least for the pictures for me was less interestinf than the fuyuhiro. The shinshinto is nice, probably did filter it out because of the period 🤷♂️ Quote
Lewis B Posted February 27 Report Posted February 27 2 minutes ago, nulldevice said: This doesn't satisfy the o-kissaki requirement but there is a TH Kencho for sale on Aoi as well for 1.7M JPY. I think it satisfies the other requirements of yours TH - Den Kanenaga - Aoi Art It's got a significant kirikomi which may or may not detract from the package depending on your perspective. On the plus side the hamon is nicely disordered. 1 Quote
oli Posted February 27 Report Posted February 27 19 minutes ago, Harlekin2xs said: The shinshinto is nice, probably did filter it out because of the period 🤷♂️ If you looking for o-kissaki, you can find them easily in Shinshinto period Quote
eternal_newbie Posted February 28 Report Posted February 28 6 hours ago, Lewis B said: As an aside I would not recommend a Juyo and above level blade as a 1st purchase. You don't want to make your beginner mistakes on these blades. If I'm reading Christopher's original post correctly, he does actually have a tanto and yari already - but this would be his first papered, good-quality purchase. Regardless, at least in the current economy I don't think you'd be able to get a Juyo-quality blade for 1.6M yen unless the seller doesn't know what they have (and if you find one, do let the rest of us know where you got it ). 1 Quote
The Forest Ninja Posted February 28 Report Posted February 28 Just looked at that AoiJapan website and I like this one. If only I had the spare money to get it. That Hamon is nice. https://www.aoijapan.com/katanaminamoto-moriyoshi-mukansa-swordsmith-nbthk-tokubetsu-hozon-token/ Quote
eternal_newbie Posted February 28 Report Posted February 28 12 hours ago, Harlekin2xs said: I have to say unique Japan offers the best pictures and descriptions of any vendor that i´ve seen, would love to get something like those more often. I suggest heading over to the Dealer Showcase (https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/forum/88-dealer-showcase/) and visiting a few of those websites; many of the dealers there have greatly informative writeups of the blades on offer, even if their photography isn't quite up to the standards of Unique Japan. In addition to the dealers listed in that forum, I strongly recommend Fred Weissberg's site nihonto.com - although he tends to specialize in items somewhat above your price range, he does offer a few more affordable gems now and then. More importantly, he has a great many archived swords and articles that are extremely educational for someone, such as yourself, who is looking to collect in the mid-to-high grade Tokubetsu Hozon level (which is what you should be aiming for with that budget). Quote
Lewis B Posted February 28 Report Posted February 28 6 hours ago, eternal_newbie said: If I'm reading Christopher's original post correctly, he does actually have a tanto and yari already - but this would be his first papered, good-quality purchase. Regardless, at least in the current economy I don't think you'd be able to get a Juyo-quality blade for 1.6M yen unless the seller doesn't know what they have (and if you find one, do let the rest of us know where you got it ). Tbh I must have missed that declaration re the Yari and tanto. While not 1.6M JPY, I did find a Juyo Kashu Sanekage blade for 1.8M in excellent polish 18 months ago. I was very tempted but I have my eye on something a little more special and closer to home, so kept my powder dry. 2 Quote
eternal_newbie Posted February 28 Report Posted February 28 1 hour ago, Lewis B said: Tbh I must have missed that declaration re the Yari and tanto. I misspoke - it was in his follow-up post, not the original. On 2/27/2026 at 3:58 PM, Harlekin2xs said: Until now, i have a tanto without papers from aoi, and a yari (also no papers) from touken komachi which is in the process of getting a koshirae made. Sanekage is a very nice smith, 1.8M for a Juyo is a steal, assuming there aren't some serious mitigating conditions. He's a step up from Tametsugu, and Juyo Tametsugu usually ranges from 3M to 4.5M in today's market. I too would have been sorely tempted, even if I didn't personally like the blade! Quote
Lewis B Posted February 28 Report Posted February 28 45 minutes ago, eternal_newbie said: I misspoke - it was in his follow-up post, not the original. Sanekage is a very nice smith, 1.8M for a Juyo is a steal, assuming there aren't some serious mitigating conditions. He's a step up from Tametsugu, and Juyo Tametsugu usually ranges from 3M to 4.5M in today's market. I too would have been sorely tempted, even if I didn't personally like the blade! I should qualify the statement re the Sanekage. It was a naginata naoshi which obviously makes a difference from a commercial standpoint. The only detraction I could detect, from a personal perspective, was it had kaeri boshi on one side and Yakitsume on the other. 1 Quote
eternal_newbie Posted February 28 Report Posted February 28 Just now, Lewis B said: It was a naginata naoshi which obviously makes a difference from a commercial standpoint. Ah. If anything, that would make it more appealing to me, as I am trying to assemble a collection of different sugatas as well as schools, and one of the most renowned Sanekage blades is also a naginata naoshi (the Falling Leaf meito, which Hoshi and Markus Sesko wrote about here: https://nihontology.substack.com/p/the-falling-leaf). Quote
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