Mutsu no Kami Kaneyasu?

[Kratos]

Hey all!

 

I recently purchased this sword and want to confirm as much as I can about it. It's either Mustu no kami Kaneyasu or Tadayasu.

 

If it's Kaneyasu then there is a father and adoptive son from edo period. The tang doesnt feel 17th century to me so some flags.

 

Would love insight on age, maker of sword and koshirae.

 

Any help is appreciated!!

[nulldevice]

I'm not an expert but the 1st gen wrote with reversed kanji (samoji) mei, due to being left handed. IDK if that applies to all of the mei of the father, but his adopted son signed both ways according to Fujishiro. However in the references of the 2nd gen's signature, there seem to be more "punched triangles" (IDK the proper term) in the chisel marks on the mei at the termination of most of the strokes. 

 

Some references to the Right Mutsu Kaneyasu:

https://www.nihontocraft.com/Cutting_Test_Katana_Osaka_Kaneyasu.htm

https://www.samuraimuseum.jp/shop/product/antique-Japanese-sword-wakizashi-signed-by-kaneyasu-nbthk-tokubetsu-hozon-certificate/

 

Quote

KANEYASU MIGI MUTSU [KANBUN 1661 SETTSU] SHINTÔ JÔSAKU 
     His original kuni is Tango, and he was a pupil of Sa Mutsu. Originally 
his name was KANESHIGE, and he changed it to KANEYASU after he became his 
(Kaneyasu's) adopted son. The father and son both were engaged by Lord 
Mizuno and moved to Matsumoto, a castle town, in Shinshû. As for his works, 
there are some of the Sa Mutsu Den style, and suguba which can be simply 
considered as ordinary for the middle shintô period. As for his mei, there 
are also some seen which are exactly like the samoji of his father. 
(Wazamono) 

 

[Kratos]

4 minutes ago, nulldevice said:

I'm not an expert but the 1st gen wrote with reversed kanji (samoji) mei, due to being left handed. IDK if that applies to all of the mei of the father, but his adopted son signed both ways according to Fujishiro. However in the references of the 2nd gen's signature, there seem to be more "punched triangles" (IDK the proper term) in the chisel marks on the mei at the termination of most of the strokes. 

 

Some references to the Right Mutsu Kaneyasu:

https://www.nihontocraft.com/Cutting_Test_Katana_Osaka_Kaneyasu.htm

https://www.samuraimuseum.jp/shop/product/antique-Japanese-sword-wakizashi-signed-by-kaneyasu-nbthk-tokubetsu-hozon-certificate/

 

 

Do you think the signature is a forgery? The tags indicate to me that it came from ww2 as a sort of war prize. The signature looks remarkably similar to others I have seen by him but the tang isn't as dark as you would expect from a sword that age.

[nulldevice]

Just now, Kratos said:

Do you think the signature is a forgery? The tags indicate to me that it came from ww2 as a sort of war prize. The signature looks remarkably similar to others I have seen by him but the tang isn't as dark as you would expect from a sword that age.

I'm not proficient enough to confidently say whether or not its a gimei. I've only looked at a few examples of the 1st/2nd gen mei with papers. 

[Kratos]

Thank you so much! Any other insights/impressions on the sword you can offer?

[Jacques]

Unfortunately gimei 

https://www.touken-sato.com/event/katana/2013/11/W-kaneyasu-01.html

[Kratos]

8 hours ago, Jacques said:

Unfortunately gimei 

https://www.touken-sato.com/event/katana/2013/11/W-kaneyasu-01.html

That is the signature of the adoptive son with the triangle marks. I think this may be made by the father. What makes you think it's not legitimate?

[nulldevice]

10 hours ago, Kratos said:

That is the signature of the adoptive son with the triangle marks. I think this may be made by the father. What makes you think it's not legitimate?

Did the 1st gen sign this way not using a reversed Mei? Every example I’ve seen in my limited research shows his reverse kanji signatures. 
 

This Mei is not reversed and this led me to look at 2nd gen Mei for comparison as the 3-4 1st gen Mei I found all had reverse kanji.