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bobtail44

Random question about signatures

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Hi,

 

I have the opportunity to buy a katana which for some reason has a shoguns name ( I think) carved artistically into the nakago. It is the full name and doesn't correspond to any swordsmith that I could find. I'm sure others here will have far more reference material than me though.

 

My Question is why would someone carve the name there? It passed shinsa with the nbthk so why would they pass it with a random name on the tang.

 

Any opinions are welcome.

 

Cheers,

 

Trent S

post-4825-14196956926564_thumb.jpg

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What does the NBTHK paper say?

 

 

I don't know I can't read it. Something to the effect of it being made at the same time as the person who has there name on the tang was alive. That is just their word though.

Id have to take a photo of it if I buy it/see it. Papers are real I know that much.

 

Trent S

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Well either it was made by or made for whomever's name is written on the Nakago, probably the former. There was atleast 1 emperor(?) I think who had a fondness for making swords. What you need is a translation of the mei and of the NBTHK papers, that should tell you everything you need to know.

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It isn't signed with the name of a Shogun...It is signed Minamoto Ietsugu I believe...Not 100% on the tsugu, but the first two kanji I am sure of...

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It isn't signed with the name of a Shogun...It is signed Minamoto Ietsugu I believe...Not 100% on the tsugu, but the first two kanji I am sure of...

 

Minamoto Ietsugu aka Tokugawa Ietsugu. As soon as I read the name I was like, I know that name. Also the papers date it to his life time the papers also place it to the area he was in. I think ill buy it. For the price that's being asked ill figure out the details later ;) It is one that has shown up after ww2 capture but not use and the seller has no clue who's name is on it. Ill post pictures when I get it because the hamon is really something to look at but I didn't take any decent photos at the time.

 

Trent S

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Um, there were several swordsmiths with the name Ietsugu....It isn't the Shogun, trust me... :rotfl:

 

Ietsugu IYE351 家次 1st Bingo Ōei (1394-1428)

Ietsugu IYE355 家次 Bitchū Kenpō (1213-1219) Ko-Aoe

Ietsugu IYE357 家次 Bitchū Hōji (1247-1249) Katayama Ichimonji

Ietsugu IYE358 家次 1st Bitchū Teiji (1362-1368) ND Katayama Ichimonji

Ietsugu IYE368 家次 Bizen Ōei (1394-1428) Yoshioka Ichimonji

Ietsugu IYE379 家次 1st Kaga Ōei (1394-1428) Hashizume

Ietsugu IYE382 家次 Kaga Chōkyō (1487-1489) Hashizume

Ietsugu IYE385 家次 2nd Kaga Kyōroku (1528-1532) Hashizume 1

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...and IYE398, Joshu ju Minamoto Ietsugu... Strongly agree with Chris, forget about the shogun. I would assume, however, that the blade was signed before the time of Tokugawa Ietsugu - who died at the early age of six, by the way. Furtehrmore, the Shogun's name was written 家継 and not 家次.

 

BR, Veli

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