Karusk

At any rate i think its a better match than the thread i posted. Also except for one they all start just under the mekugi-ana, and are all on the same side if the nakago.

Better mei photo. Assuming its his latest possible work because of the hanafusa character i think some of the differences may be die to a more refined signature style as he was older. There are some differences (the little circle of the second from bottom I noticed is done in four little ticks rather than a drawn out circle) bit there are alot of similarities as well. Is it possible he was having someone else sign due to his eyesight/age? I read that sometimes a smiths later work is more likely mainly done by his apprentices. He supervises and directs and they do the lifting and and hammering. sorry about the delay.

From what I understand whoever did it and the sayagaki was trying to say it was masamunes adopted son/direct apprentice. It was quite lovely with a fish belly nakago age appropriate sugata. I figured something that old was actually done to hide the true maker more than to try and defraud someone.

^this the guy. Thanks jaques.

Fujishima would be the older school by maybe 100 years or so. Kuninaga Is the founder of mino. Tomoshige is the founder of fujishima school. Pupil of Rai Kunitoshi. Thats about the most i can dig up. You can google either school for previous sales the first few will have as much info as anyone can give you here. They are both highly desirable schools as their works are all pre 1590(koto) Their schools broke up or moved to other areas and became other schools. This decision should come down to which blade speaks to you. The fujishima has a more active hamon and would be what i would go after as i have some prime examples of a suguha or straight hamon like the mino. It does have some activity in the top photo but looks more suguha-ba in the bottom. The mino appears to be ubu(uncut) and for something koto that is extremely desirable. Not that the fujishima one is less desirable, its just more common for older blades to be o suriage(cutdown) I think its a rule that its worth more unaltered as well. Youve picked two fine swords and are going to have to make the decision based on which one speaks louder to you. Do you like the plainer utilitarian hamon of the mino(the first expensive one i bought was suguha) or the more active fujishima. Do you like the unaltered mino, or do you like the history of the fujishima bing cut down due to fighting style changes or the laws of the edo period regarding length. This is you right now, your just gonna have to make a decision. Either one is a fine first blade. Im glad to have been absolutely bo help at all🤣. Welcome to the forum.

This is back up, ive been watching it too, no one wants to pay more than 550 and he is refusing to let it go. When he wouldn’t let me have for 550 when i won the auction (its been up three times now🤣) I decided to have a Chinese smith make me a custom. For what i wanted with a fancier hamon and more extreme length it cost me 650. That’s including the higher quality tsuba i had him add. Hes hammering it out as we speak. So bare minimum for something modern made an not Nihonto 525 bucks. (Folded 1095/75 with any cutomizations you want) Its worth about 500 bucks IMO cause thats what it would cost me to have it made. This would be worth a great deal with the shape of it if it were actually Nihonto or antique. Heres an older hirazukuri katana one of the photos i am having the smith use as a base for what i wanted. dont flay me for watching daiymos listings. here is a real hirazukuri katana. pretty sure its gimei and not worth more than 1k bucks. https://www.ebay.com/itm/KATANA-sword-w-White-Sheath-NOBUKUNI-MUROMACHI-39-4-26-7-980g/293962319550?_trkparms=aid%3D777008%26algo%3DPERSONAL.TOPIC%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20201018205123%26meid%3Dbba39851383e410f87660bb0c4313e59%26pid%3D101286%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26mehot%3Dnone%26itm%3D293962319550%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057%26algv%3DWatchlistVariant&_trksid=p2380057.c101286.m47999&_trkparms=pageci%3Ab6858a8a-86cb-11eb-a268-b2ef95358c3d|parentrq%3A3e18a7111780a7b267d20d9cffe60bc0|iid%3A7 IMO this is in way too good of condition to be real. The homon shows up like a ground/etched hamon way to white and clear. And the hint is in the name of the listing. Japanese *STYLE* You can assume anyone using that phrasing is doing it to cover themselves from someone who gets it and decides they want a refund. You cant say he was saying its Nihonto when he says style. Wont lie and say I didnt try to get it, but i was assuming it was modern and not true Nihonto so i didn’t go above 550. IMO if you want this shape and cant find it you’d do better to have a Chinese or American smith make it for you. I use shogun sword(formerly tsunami dragon) whenever i get the hair to recreate something i cant find or want to cut with and not destroy the real thing. This guy isnt letting it go for what anyone is willing to pay for it anyways. Save your money or go have it made custom.

I just watched an obvious sagami no kuni sadamune gimei go for around 4500.

@GeraintThats my whole point. If he is juyo status here he should have been able to perceive the items age before he decided to buy it. With clear rules about returning and judging the item yourself I consider saying he was burned to be calling daiymo a cheat and dishonest. You really cant hold the seller responsible for lost returns with the strict import laws Japan has. He paid for and received the item daiymo cant be held responsible for returns when he has a clear no returns accepted policy. Also if you return it and have the tracking for returning ebay will refund your money with their 100% money back gaurantee if the seller does not. I just dont think its fair to say daiymo burned him when he just wasn’t happy with his purchase. In the described situation he burned himself. Anyone with juyo status on this forum should know the difficulty involved in returning an item to Japan. I dont have any status here and I know that returning something to Japan is nearly impossible even with papers and torokusho copies. Ive never had a bad experience with the seller he’s always sent me the exact item pictured. What Mr Hennick is describing is called buyers remorse. Here i am arguing and defending daiymo. Im sorry honestly. You get what you pay for and all i was trying to say originally is if you want something cheap to study that is Nihonto that daiymo is where i would send you. I stand by that. Anything you buy from daiymo would be 1000x better than this cobra abomination and be gauranteed from Japan. Getting something that wasnt as old as he thought is on his own judgment and not daiymo. I have a good relationship with the seller and i felt obligated to defend him. Im gonna unfollow this thread and focus my attention elsewhere. Ive said enough and i dont want to get in any trouble trouble here as i am enjoying the forums immensely.

It looks like a preservation polish so I doubt it was polished off. Anyone doing a polish like this would be doing their best to preserve the shape of the kissaki and take as little metal off as possible. Shobu zukuri is a desirable trait as its a rarer kissaki shape. It is also more commonly found on blades with extreme age as it was more common pre 1500 than after as the kissaki line is a technique designed to strengthen the the tip, and when they started doing it everyone followed suit. So its not necessarily a bad or good thing, just an indicator of when. It might help someone better than me make a judgment of the actual smith as well. I really wouldn’t recommend a polish. This blade is in good condition for its age. Its age and condition are the value points and any polish will be taking more metal off possibly reavealing carbon pockets or kizu.(openings in the outer shell) It has a good chance to pass judgment. The NTHK is a little more forgiving than the NBTHK from what I understand. The NBTHK judges historical significance while the NTHK judges just whether its authentic Nihonto. The JTK paper i had done before it was shipped to me from Japan was 200 bucks added to the agreed price of the blade with a option to pick another item if it failed. They also judge just based on authentic nihonto status. I think NBTHK and NTHK are 400 for the first rank application. We add that perceived value to anything that passes so its up to you if you want to get the provenance of the paper and a true expert opinion, and not just us armchair experts. I have no idea how to do this once the blade is in America, i wish i could help you there. A paper is just a well informed opinion, but written in Japanese all pretty. You can consider it Koto at the very least. The paper will just be their opinion on which school. For a first blade you picked quite the looker. Maybe save money on the paper and polish and add something else to you collection. A single sword its like a a single lays potato chip. You’re absolutely going to want another one. Sorry about my long windedness.

Returning them is a whole other issue and if you wish to have a return option buying directly from Japan isn’t feasible. The laws are very strict for import and its likely they were seized and destroyed due to them being modern. The pictures are clear and well done. Dont call someone dishonest when they spell out the rules clearly. They were real nihonto from Japan and Its unfair to blame him for you not being able to tell an items age from photos. You being unhappy with your purchase is not him being dishonest.

Super informative dave new nakago photo coming. I didn’t actually consider the rust patina that different from other shinto i had looked at. @SteveM Thank you for the input on hamon.

Burned how? Gimei? Low quality ,bad papers? I definitely dont want to be perceived as arguing with any of you over it BTW. I know he handles the lowest quality stuff that wont sell in Japan. I honestly only dared say this because of how bad this cobra thing was.

Super informative guys a big thank you all around.

Listen to him not me🤣. You’ll definitely love anything you get from this forum. My only defense of daimyo would be at least you wont end up with something like this cobra abomination. Everyone is trying to make a dollar, at least daiymo is trying to make a dollar semi honestly. Thanks Brian for not crucifying me.

From what I understand they have them in America every year or so in San Francisco and Tampa. They have caneled this years. Otherwise you have to send an oshigata to the organization in Japan. Therese NBTHK NTHK JTK and JASMK. I need to send one out myself but really have no idea of how to go about it either. Hopefully one of these other guys will educate us.

With every one else opinion on this lining up with my own id say at least very late nambokucho. Its not something that absolutely never happens in later periods, but coupled with the extreme cutdowns and the color if the nakago im comfortable saying late nambokucho, early muromachi period. 1400-1500. I think everyone here would be hesitant to claim a value for their reputations, but id say if i had set my sights on this at auction i would back out before i went over 1500 bucks. Just because of the lack of paper/provenance and the fact that you can find papered stuff around that price. Its in much better condition than the first things i ever bought.

Better pictures. Think i got a handle on making hamon and hada show. I couldn’t fathom why anyone would put a gimei on something with such a spectacular hamon. I guess some people just want to watch the world burn😑. I educated myself a little more on the retemper and im starting to believe its not retempered. Apparently they wrap the nakago with wet turnips or beets while they reheat it and this will leave a difference in the rust patina. Comparing it to others i have it seems natural. At any rate a retemper of this quality would be as much a talking point as anything else about the blade. Ive seen less flashy gimei go for 4k (a muramasa advertised gimei, and a sadamune gimei that was a muromachi period inscription) I just can’t convince myself to be unhappy with it. If its a retemper and gimei its the nicest one ill ever find. Would i be correct in calling this a hitatsura hamon?

Wow from you thats high praise. Thanks.

With a 25 in nagasa and a nakago of 6 you can estimate the original nagasa was at least 30 inches or even more. I would think more. The color of the nakago suggests it was cutdown during the muromachi period as it takes an extremely long time to get that deep thick patina. You can also assume that missing the original nakago its been cut down at least three times. Probably even more as they dont usually just cut the whole nakago off the first time. It was probably first cut down due to the change in fighting styles awhen such huge swords became a liability. Miyamoto Mushashi went around kicking everyones ass dual wielding short one handers around 1600 and everyone followed suit.(i know theres other reasons humor me) This points to it at least being Koto(pre 1596) which is extremely desirable to all of us. The polish appears to be a preservation polish and not a full art polish. is there a kissaki line? The line going from the edge to the bohi near the tip? If not its shobu zukuri which also is an indication of greater age in the presence of such a cutdown piece. Id say this would probably be worth at least submitting to shinsa. A fine first piece.

These guys will all probably crucify me for this. I recommend you buy yourself something cheap from daimyou54eb on ebay to study in hand before buying anything expensive. By cheap i mean under 1k$. They handle low end stuff that wont receive a paper but its all guaranteed nihonto as he is in Japan and the laws governing swords there are very strict. Dont pay full price he always accepts offers. It might have a crack or some rust but having the real thing in your hand will help you avoid some costly mistakes in the future. It wont be worth exactly what you paid in Japan or anything, but it will be worth more than that abomination.

First things i ever bought. I wanted something cheap to study before i went after anything expensive. Oh how that changes quickly 🧐 Both were under 1k and i probably still over paid. theres alot of large damage to one side on both, but from what I understand this isn’t actually fatal. No hagire the tips are intact. One is signed sukemitsu. Im 100% its not that sukemitsu. The litteral translation is favorite apprentice so my younger self always assumed this was something done by an apprentice and not a master. The waki was sold to me as edo period and the katana as muromachi period. I have no reason to doubt the seller. Im pretty sure this mountain shaped habaki is worth more than either blade. No one wants to buy these. If you do ill laugh and do you the favor of keeping them. If you got something to say id love to hear it, and nothing you say will ever make someone actually buy these from me🤣. I love them both all the same. Theyre real nihonto and were the start of my journey.

Do you know why all of them dont have this? I have a few authentic papers that dont have. Is this just an anomalous thing?

I dont think its large enough to have gone through someone’s shoulders. Theres apparently four different calligraphy’s so i bet thats an issue for is at some point. Hopefully one of these guys will set is straight. I appreciate the input and interest. Can you tell what the back of the paper says?

Heres the paper. Anyone know what the back is for? Its the only one i have that has that. I thought it was the owners ,but would appreciate if anyone knows.

@ChrisW ill be posting it soon.