nihonto_1

Thank you Ray. Bruce, my 'understanding' was on a much more novice level I am afraid. I understood the kikimon, but my 1st time seeing the ichi. So if kikumon ichi, forged after 1701 when permission was given. Are there any thoughts on the kaku-mune / suriage/ 70cm blade length? From my readings the size makes it too long for a naginata, which seems to become more wakizashi in length. So was this a revival piece made as tachi and then cut down? Or just a larger blade with a larger tang that maybe was cut down later in the Edo or possibly early 20th century to fit more modern mounts? W

@Ray Singer thank you. Now I understand the ichi bit. So from the early 1700 Would the tang be suriage? Just seems very 'cut off'

Hi - while browsing around i cam across this Blade - apparently from a well regarded Victorian collector's collection - described as a early 19th century sword. the pictures are not my own and the blade is not in hand to take any other images. Blade is 70cm long I was interested in the combination of the kaku-mune and the Kikumon generally it seems in rather poor shape. is this a from a naginata? and has the tang been cut down? seems a very abrupt ending.

Hard to say from images 1 and 2, but image 3 on the mimi/rim I seem to see nice layers in the metal, so I would say forged not cast. Also a few interesting tooling marks around the top right sukashi. Will

@Spartancrest @Brian Oh yeah.......that is similar

Hi Doug. Just from the overall shape and general style of aesthetic, it seems more south East Asian, like thai or Cambodia. I am not familiar with their blades, but the general feel of the piece seems more inline with what I would see in art from those origins. Will

Hmm curious. I am in agreement with Dan, some details seem very soft, the gold wear does not seem to match the metalwork wear. Also lack of the punch marks around the nakago ana. Tagane-oto I think they are called. I recently bought a whole bunch of copies....no idea why, but has helped me learn a lot more than I did. But as above, could be very wrong.

Thank you Colin and Mitchell. I have learned a lot, which I shall probably forget and have to read about many times. Over the last few days I have been looking at a few shinshinto tangs, I have found a few that bare a resemblance to mine in file marks and patina.....not hamon though.

@Matsunoki Hi Colin - there are a couple of video on this link - kind of looks like lots of mini scratches + rough grain. https://1drv.ms/f/c/795d76c18ed24c8d/IgDA1BLQ5fGfSJKtoOqUHCWRAUwIcwJWTBdTBwncyT3Jpqg?e=KNwcCA @Nukitsukewell i would say fairly symmetrical in lengh - on the Ura it seems maybe 4mm high up of so But while trying to look at this i started seeing this straight line in the hamon - any info on that would be great - i have put a video trying to show one from the other here https://1drv.ms/f/c/795d76c18ed24c8d/IgBcDfj7MeQsToZvblaGM1hQAewNFlNaz7nMg7x82VbzUbg?e=tS5qMc diagram photo attached. I have also put all the other photos on a link here - just in case resolution is better https://1drv.ms/f/c/795d76c18ed24c8d/IgAa79cHXJkrT7n8tJEaECZlAZJoQZ5OTg69QgycetO7ljE?e=0hIxeQ thanks w

Ha, yes that's the circle I am in. Thank you for all the info above, give me a while to digest,.and appreciate the time you have put in. I shall check the yakidashi when back home, my memory is saying not completely symmetrical. I guess as mentioned before, maybe it is newer just based on the tang oxidisation. Also I am guessing yakidashi was not a sudden change but something that evolved over several decades, centuries.

Hi Colin, I believe most of the 'sparkle' is most likely from the rough surface/hada grain, but when you tilt the blade back and forth in sunlight there other more crystaline sparkles, it's hard to say if those are tiny tiny scratches catching the light, or nie but it does produce a little glitter effect. I will see if I can make a video Thank you for your thoughts, still reading about yakidashi. Also Kenji Mishina, very interesting description. Too flashy/showy? Noted on the armour piercing capabilities. Some observations which we're making me feel this was a more experienced smith (from the point of view of somebody with little experience), the matched hamon - to me the symmetry seems very good (is this a good thing, to me aesthetically it seems good). The hada, the way a burl combines with the boshi - seems like that would take some practicing. W

@Geraint thank you. Yes I am a member and will be taking it along to the next meeting (if timings allow) Currently going around in circles a little looking at mino / shinto mino, and senjuin mino (very close hada it seems and maybe a few similar hamon) Still researching. Plus the article John posted, that's taking a few reads to semi digest. My stumbling block is the tang, I just feel that a blade with these quite perfect details would have been signed in later periods. The sizes etc align well with something earlier, maybe for armour piercing (weight and it's general thickness), but maybe that's just a revival geometry....

@Shugyosha I am new to yakidashi....are you referring to where the hamon terminates

but i will favour the least beneficial answer - until i have more information. Never good to trust Ai or get ones emotions raised.

@Nukitsuke so my original thoughts Koto - maybe Sue-Bizen (based on my limited hands on knowledge) but i do like to cross ref with different ai agents - Very hard to pick the truth from them though - the above was from co-pilot / gemini gave similar - interestingly chatgpt came out with Koto possibly shinto but favouring Koto the thing is AI is re-affirming, so if you say' is this a cleaned tang' it would agree - if you dont mention it - Ai see's aged tang - i have had many many arguments between 3 or 4 agents until i kind of give up (coding/electronics etc etc) just feeding in the images and blade data to the same ai can also produce different results.