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Over the last month or so I have received many inquiries asking about a future NTHK-NPO shinsa and show follow up to the one held last fall in Minneapolis.

 

I can say with certainty that there will not be another show and shinsa in Minneapolis. I am currently looking into two possibilities for a future shinsa:

 

The first option is a mail in or drop off shinsa only. I would host the shinsa team at my home and people could send their items which would be put through shinsa and sent back, or drop them off to either be shipped back, or picked up at a later time. If there is enough interest in this scenario, I may go forward with it, possibly next year at the earliest.

 

The other option, which I have not yet looked into, is the possibility of having a shinsa in Chicago, either alone or with a show. That too would be next year at the earliest.

 

If people wish to send me feedback, please feel free. It would be best to send to my email address, rather than a pm as my pm box here is always full....emails is:

 

swords at ejapaneseswords.com

 

thanks.....

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Hi Chris. For me, the shinsa in Chicago would be quite attractive, since I live in Chicago. Also, Chicago is quite centrally located, and nearly everybody can get here by a direct flight from almost everywhere. I would even be willing to help you with some of the hosting if you wish. How big is the shinsa team? You might consider coordinating with Marc Porpora in an arrangement where you ran the shinsa and he ran the Chicago sword show (just a thought). Cheers, Bob

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Hi Chris,

 

The mail-in/drop-off option may be attractive to people and will certainly increase shinsa submissions. From my egocentric view, I love the mail-in/drop-off option.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

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Never been to a shinsa, but to my mind....a drop off shinsa would take away from what I see as a very social event, where people get to catch up..see each other's swords, and perhaps have a few words with the panel over submissions?

That is if I have them right from reading about them online....

 

Would love to know the expenses involved in bringing a shinsa panel out to a foreign country...would be very interested in having the first ever shinsa here in South Africa. There are quite a few swords here that will never be judged otherwise, and although not a huge amount of collectors, might be a chance to build up the funds to have a shinsa here. Pipe dream possibly, but for the sake of 5 or 10 of my own swords with potential...would love to see it happen.

 

Brian

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All righty then -- I've got an idea. Why not have a good Ol' fashioned Shinsa Throw-down. Get both the NTHK and the NTHK-NPO shinsa teams together at the next Chicago Token Kai. Put them in separate rooms and have each piece submitted run through both teams scrutiny. After this, have both teams assemble before the attendees with the results read aloud. Where the results are different the teams must 'prove' their opinions are the correct or better ones. The submitter can then choose which team's result to have origami made. ROFLMAO!!!

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As long as we're living in a fantasy world, why not also invite the NBTHK and Honami as well. Then we can have Santa and Elvis announce the winner. And, in before the old "which-is-better" contest which locks a good thread.

 

 

Chris, thank you so much for arranging the shinsa in MSP last year, I was really impressed. Sad to hear that there won't be another here. I can see a Chicago shinsa doing well, with the ease of flights into O'hare.

 

Derek

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Dear Chirs B.,

 

Having a shinsa in Chicago sounds like a good idea. Having it attached to a show in my opinion is a good idea. Looking forward to what is decided. If it is at Chris's place I will ship it to him.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

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Chris,

I would be interested in either. An in person shinsa, maybe with a show would be great I'd like to meet some other collectors face to face as I've always found that sometimes the best knowledge comes from anecdotal conversation, especially since I've been at this for...oh a week now. Either way, I am planning on trying to get a window placed on the piece that I have and would like to submit it for shinsa to see if it's worth a full polish on.

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Even if it is held in conjunction with a show, I will have a mail in option like I did last time. Nearly 100 items were mailed in and put through shinsa the day before the show. It went very well....

 

Thank you for your feedback....

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The importance of holding a shinsa during a sword show is that the shinsa is a very good draw to a show. Our sword shows are somewhat struggling these days, from what I've been told, and it is important to do whatever is needed to encourage collectors to attend the sword shows. Working together to bring collectors together in both a social and educational atmospher is what we need to be working towards. Just my two cents worth.

 

Ron H.

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The importance of holding a shinsa during a sword show is that the shinsa is a very good draw to a show. Our sword shows are somewhat struggling these days, from what I've been told, and it is important to do whatever is needed to encourage collectors to attend the sword shows. Working together to bring collectors together in both a social and educational atmospher is what we need to be working towards. Just my two cents worth.

 

Ron H.

 

I agree Ron. But it seems to me that the shows need the shinsa, not the other way around. Both are a lot of work for the organizers and I know from experience that shows alone are just not worth my time, trouble, and the expense. I am considering both options- a mail in shinsa as well as combining with a show. If the show combo doesn't work out, to satisfy the gazillion people who have contacted me about another shinsa, I may just forgo the show and do the mail in....

 

Times have changed and perhaps we need to consider new approaches....The other thing I have considered is to have the shinsa in conjunction with a purely educational event. Lectures, displays, round table discussions, etc. Of course if someone wanted to organize a dealer room on site, I wouldn't stand in the way....Or, dealers could set up in their rooms and have a whole floor of deals...

 

Appreciate the feedback....

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Chris, I just applaud your willingness to hold an event of any sort; anything is better than nothing, as it were. I really like the idea of a shinsa with an educational event attached. Many of us read every nihonto book we can, look all over the internet, yet get the chance to have quality swords in hand very infrequently.

Perhaps I could suggest that you could hold a shinsa in Chicago, with an attached event that allows us to inspect swords in hand. I myself would gladly lend my koto bizen sword for inspection, if I had the chance to inspect 100 or so others, especially if was combined with comments by experts such as yourself. I could imagine a table with 20 koto blades from various schools, with an expert explaining the main kantei points. Another table with 20 shinto blades, another with 20 shinshinto, another with 20 war-time, and another with 20 modern nihonto. Or a 30 min presentaion focusing on each nihonto era, with expert commentary, and 20 swords of that era to inspect.

 

Derek

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That would indeed be a wonderful event, similar to what they have in Japan, called a Taikai.....

 

The problem I have seen in the past with educational events is that participation is not what one would hope for....The sad reality seems to be that there are many more people interested in the buying and selling than in in-depth study. Nothing would please me more than to be able to hold a Taikai and get 200-300+ people to attend. When we have held displays at the past few shows, I was shocked to see how few people actually took the time to look at the blades that were on display. In the good old days when the aisles were elbow to elbow and there were actually a few hundred non-table holders at the shows, the exhibits were filled. Today's shows are primarily attended by table holders, nearly the same ones from show to show. There is little attendance by the pure collector, compared to 15-20 years ago. There are many reasons for this but the bottom line is that while everyone says they want education, the percentage that actually attend the shows for education, compared to those there for primarily profit or simple socializing, is quite small.

 

Thank you for you input....

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I know that when I was a regular visitor to taikai and Token meetings many potential students were put off by the seemed elite'ism that prevailed. Like many other clubs peoiple are split into groups of the usual five,Treaure hunters,students,profit takers,militaria & martial arts. Difficult as the web has blown appart the old world of Sensei and student, where this will end only your god knows.

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Oh how I miss those days gone past when we were all young and eager to learn about the swords that turned up around every corner! Learning came hard with little being available in English. Most sword show attendees were young and hungry for information with only a smattering of knowledgeable people -- John Yumoto, Kentaro Yoshikawa, Dean Hartley -- offering their knowledge to us. Today with the Internet we have a wealth of information waiting for us, and that is also good. Look at this site. But things change and some things survive while others do not survive for one reason or another. Today, while sword shows are typically attended by the same familiar faces and few fresh ones, there is some effort to provide study and learning. The NBTHK-American Branch is one such source of learning. It's hard to pay the cost of travel and hotel, meals, bar tabs and last but not least, expensive table rentals...and not want to recoop some funds through sales of items we wish to "move along" from out collections.

 

The best events in recent years, in my opinion, are the ones that Chris and Larry organized in Minneapolis. Bringing a class shinsa team over from Japan headed by Miyano san and then coupling that with a reasonably priced sword show (with full, 8-foot tables, I might add) along with seperate cultural study exhibits and demonstrations, well, it was almost like turning back the clock. Sorry if I'm rambling on too long with this but now I feel better. :lol: Supporting an NTHK-NPO shinsa paired with a purely educational hands-on event but without a sales room? Sadly, I do not think this would ever work in today's economy. I'd love it and would absolutely support it, but I also wish for $1/gallon gasoline, too!

Ron H.

R

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Some of you guys will never know how lucky you are to even have the chance to attend shows. I can't believe people will stay in a country with large sword shows and then not attend :steamed:

Those guys are not true collectors. If I only had to pay a few $100 to fly and attend a show, I would jump on it.

Sadly, myself and many hundeds of others here who have almost no Nihonto community in their country would have to spend upwards of $6K to travel to view swords.

I have never seen a militaria show here in SA that had more than maybe one Gunto for sale...never seen tsuba or any other fittings. Unless our small gathering of enthusiasts organizes a meeting, there will be no trade at all in Nihonto here.

I don't say this for sympathy..I say it because if you have a sword show within a few hundreds of miles of yourself...make a plan! If taking a day off and driving or flying a few hours puts you off, then you have no real desire to collect. Take the chance many of us here never have.

 

Brian

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Some of you guys will never know how lucky you are to even have the chance to attend shows

 

When first starting out I recall fellow Rochester Sword Study group members would take turns saying to me in that 'this isn't a choice manner', "you are going to the __________ sword show AREN'T YOU, you gotta go! You have to go! And not only am I grateful to those friends for things like the displays and the lectures that have contributed so greatly to an education, but attending shows also created the opportunity to sit down for a good sword discussion with someone like Col. Hartley, who I might not have otherwise ever met, and that would've been most unfortunate.

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This has been a very interesting thread, and is quite important and reflective of the state of collecting, especially in the US. The relationship between the collector and the merchant is in all of us, as almost all collectors are cognizant of value and price, lest they pay too much and will never be able to trade out of their present swords to change or upgrade their collections without a large loss.

 

Chris has been a great asset to all of us, willing to share his knowledge, organizing the Minneapolis show, hosting polishers in his home, serving as an intermediate for polishing services in Japan and running the shinsa. I think the message is loud and clear that running the show is not time and cost effective for Chris, but running the shinsa is. That is why I was hoping that Chris and Marc Porpora might come together to at least synchronize their events so they happen at the same time at roughly the same place. Each event would enhance the success of the other.

 

As to the educational events, I love them, but I imagine that finding sensei to teach them is a challenge. Maybe we can tap some of the greatly knowledgable collectors on the NMB to do some teaching.

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I BLAME THE INTERNET! Well, seriously, I think the internet has changed almost everything in our world for better or worse. The vast amount of information available, the expert forums, and the ability to purchase swords over the internet has lessened the necessity to actually come together at shows. On the other hand, all of these things about the internet are also amazing benefits as well, allowing me to view nihonto that I would otherwise never have access to, read opinions of some of the most learned experts in the world, and purchase authentic nihonto from reputable dealers.

We are part of a relatively small group of serious nihonto enthusiasts; the draw of a sword show is correspondingly small. To attend a show in the US, you are looking at spending approx $400 for air, $200 for hotel, $30 taxi each way, and entry fee. When you consider the cost, it again lowers the amount of people who can attend. Which I think is the issue that Chris is making. I'm sure a mail-in shinsa makes economic sense, as one can send in the item with shinsa fee at 1/3 of the cost of actually attending the show.

Don't get me wrong, as you can read from my note several posts above, I would be the first person in line at an event like a Taikai. If there is enough interest shown here, both in people willing to lend their quality nihonto, and in collectors willing to lend their expertise, perhaps something could happen.

 

 

Derek

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That is why I was hoping that Chris and Marc Porpora might come together to at least synchronize their events so they happen at the same time at roughly the same place. Each event would enhance the success of the other.

 

Marc was approached some years back but the people pulling the strings support the Yoshikawa NTHK so it was a non-starter. I have heard rumors to the effect that there may be a new show in Chicago in the near future. If that comes to fruition, then a Chicago show/shinsa may happen....

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  • 1 month later...

I think any future meeting would be great, but it would even be better if it was centralized, not where everyone would have to fly to it, like Chicago, or possibly Ohio, or the Kentucky area.

 

Make it centralized, so that everyone could attend, without having to fly to it, as I can and would drive , but not interested in having to fly to it.

 

Just my thought.

 

Brian

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Brian,

 

Were I living in the States, I'll prefer flying than driving. Driving takes too long and you must think of people working in Companies who cannot lose 4 days holidays just for driving. Furthermore they will be exhausted after a 2000 miles drive.

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@ Jean

 

May be its just me, as i like taking long drives, enjoy the other parts of the country, the food, the people, and do some sight seeing as we are driving to and from an event.

 

We are heading down to Louisville next weekend to see the Samurai exhibit, i will take as many pics as possible.

 

Brian

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