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Masamune

Ebay seller: Daishobohi (Caveat Emptor)

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Beware of this ebay seller as he sold me an odachi he bought on ebay with a hagiri. I was the underbidder. He made a profit on me & wouldn't even adjust The price to work it out after I contacted him. His feedback is 100% on ebay but if you look at his feedback you will see what others have posted. $3200.00 dollars. Thats part of my nihonto collage education fund! I didnt notice the crack until my polisher brought it to my attention! He is a member of this forum I hope I never get the chance to meet him personally at a show.

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Thanks for the info. As Nihonto Collectors, self policing will protect our hobby and our investments (in the long run). I have heard of many people getting out of nihonto because of situations like this. I am looking forward to hearing from the other side on this.

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I'm not following you. He won it on eBay, and then sold it to you? How would he know who the underbidder was, and was he aware of the hagire?

If you were not aware of it, then he probably didn't either. In that case, there are no hard and fast rules, and it is up to the seller or his conditions of sale.

Please clarify.

 

Brian

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Hello Brian, Yes to the first question. Yes to the second question. He knew I was the underbidder because I informed him & emailed him to ask if he wanted to sell at a profit. as to the hagiri I'm shure he knew, otherwise he would not have sold it to me for a two hundred dollar profit. What difference does it make THE SWORD HAS A HAGRI! HE DOES NOT WANT TO DO RIGHT! I didnt want my money back I just wanted recompence. There ARE hard & fast rules Brian, You could work with your customer to make things right... Business is all about working with your customer & keeping him satisfied.

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I'm not too sure I see a connection between wanting to make a profit and knowing about a hagire... In other words: How does the fact that he sold you the sword for more than he paid for it prove he was aware of the hagire and/or dishonest? Is it not possible that he thought he could use the extra cash to buy a more expensive sword he had his eye on? I'm not trying to be a smart aleck or anything, just saying that there is a chance he honestly wasn't aware of the issue.

 

Even if he was, though, would it matter? You would have bought the sword from the original seller, hagire and all, had the other guy not bought it first. I think the real issue isn't with the other bidder but the seller (again, assuming that he didn't know about the hagire beforehand).

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Hi Adam,

 

My point is it dosent matter weather he knew or he didnt know the sword has a hagire. If I bought the sword from the original seller I could of returned it as he had a return policy. I hope you dont get burned buying a sword from someone who wont give you the right time of the day. Like I said if you look at his ebay feedback closely you will see CAVEAT EMPTOR! Thats all I'm trying to say here.

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You said that you didn't notice the hagire until your polisher brought it to your attention. I would guess that that means that it is not a very obvious crack, which raises the possibility that neither Daishobohi nor the original seller knew about it.

 

Once the sword has been in your hands for a considerable amount of time (at least enough for you to show or send it to your polisher), then it enters a gray area I would think, since it has traveled and may have acquired the hagire during this period. If you didn't know about it, it is hard to insist that he did. I'm not taking sides on this, but just pointing out that things may not be as cut and dried as you suggest.

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I have sold sword to quite a few members and have never had any problems, you guys can say Hi if you feel like it... Lets speak the truth here .. Mark contacted me about a sword that was purchased by me on ebay ......He really wanted sword. After a little while I agreed to sell him sword to buy another one, after I had studied it......Anyways I shiped him sword ,I never seen a hagire or any problems to be quite honest.. After mark received sword he emailed me saying what a wonderful sword he was so happy blah blah..... Now heres where it gets interesting a year after sword has been sold to him he emails me saying there is a hagirea....... Well I never seen one, hes never seen one and now a year later he is upset?. I am sorry but you dont buy a sword and inspect it say your happy with it and a year later threaten people......... I made no claims or garentess about sword...Do not slander my name for some bull...... And dont threaten me .....

Respectfully

Yitzy

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I bought a sword with NTHK paper years ago signed kanetsune, sue Muromachi. When I had it polished, it had two hagire. It means that even the Shinsa did not see them as the sword was not well polished/rusted. Never buy out-of-polish blades or take your risk and don't cry over spoiled milk.

This happens sometimes, it must be taken into account when buying sword. Remember that if the sword is bent, depending the kind of hamon, in case of straightening it can cause hagire, if not careful.

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Mark.

 

Correct me if I am wrong here, but it seems to me that you asked Yitzy to sell you the sword, that you were initially thrilled by the purchase and said as much to the seller. Subsequently, about a year later when you had recieved the sword back again from your polisher, you found a hagire that the polishing had brought out. In other words you had taken the same risk that any of us take when we buy a sword out of polish and subsequently have it polished. Given that the hagire was not evident when the sword was sold to you, there is no foul by the seller. You simply took a risk and it didnt pay off. I cant see why you hold the seller responsible for what is plain bad luck. If this is correct then what can you reasonably expect the seller to do about it ???????

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Sue the impudent samurai who had the temerity to possibly use a valuable sword in a nasty vicious battle, so damaging it that you were to discover when having it polished, some hundreds of years later, that it was in fact a second hand weapon and had subsequently developed a fault. How dare he commit such a sacrilege!!!!! :badgrin:

 

Get real Mark....... You made an error that could not have been forseen, and now you are looking to pass off the responsibility for it and get back some of the money you have wasted. :roll: Get over it and move on.

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I'm real Sanjuro, but dont know about all the speculation here. The sword is not a koto or shinto but a shinsakuto. As for the condition it is in 90% polish. I brought it to a polisher & he showed me the Hagiri. Its like I said before I didnt want my money back as I said Its a nihonto collage fund! Thats about as real as it gets. We all make mistakes & hopefully learn from them. My polisher never polished it. As for Yitzy, I dont make threats just promises, his feedback speaks for itself. It seems I wasen't the only one with a problem sword. All I wanted was some recompence from him. As one catches more flys with honey than vinager.

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Just one more comment here. In any transaction like this even the most reputable sellers will have a return policy that usually states the buyer has a certain amount of time to return a piece that they do not like. The amount of time usually varies but 3-5 days is common. Even the most reasonable person could not expect a year. As you said yourself, Mark, Caveat Emptor. That does not just apply to "dishonest" seller but also refers to the responsibility of the buyer to make sure they get what they think they are getting at the time of the transaction.

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Mark

 

My apologies... I got it wrong with the speculation. My last post was a flippant remark at best. OK, so its a shinsakuto in 90% polish. Even so, with the passage of one year or thereabouts, one can hardly expect to receive any compensation from any dealer regardless of whom it may be. If you did not see the hagire until it was pointed out to you by a polisher then it is safe to assume that the seller was also equally unaware of it. If this is the case then it was sold in good faith. It is unfortunate but an acceptable risk you have taken in buying the sword. Regardless of it being part of an investment fund for a college education, ( I assume this is what you mean by a 'nihonto college fund'), the caveat emptor rule applies to all nihonto purchases and moreso in this case since it entails the passage of so much time. You will take a loss on this sword when it is sold no doubt.

Incidentally, there are more secure and greater profit yielding investment vehicles than nihonto, but that is beside the point. Your exposure to this kind of potential setback is also heightened exponentially in procuring ebay merchandise in less than full polish.

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Locked unless someone comes up with something more constructive to add.

 

Brian

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