Shoami or Owari?

[Rodenbacher]

I bought this very beautiful Tsuba from a renowned french Dealer who told me it was Shoami school. But in my opinion there are some arguments for Owari school:

 

a) the symmetry of the design

b) the tekkotsu in the rim

c) the rim is squared and not round-faced

d) the dimensions: 8.3 x 8 x 0.5 cm

e) the form of the seppa-dai

 

What do the experts think?

[christianmalterre]

Good decision!

Owari!

 

Christian

[raven2]

I agree with Owari.

[Henry Wilson]

While it seems to tick all the Owari sukashi boxes, should the iron not be darker and have a richer patina?

 

Just some thoughts

[Soshin]

Hi,

 

I would say Owari Sukashi school. The rim and how the ji-sukashi is done (squareness) all look Owari to me. The ji-sukashi design is bold and symmetric characteristic of Owari but also doesn't look dynamic enough to be Shoami School. The color of the patina of the iron does look off in all the photos which could just be poor lighting or a white balance issue. Can you provide better photos under natural sunlight or other better lighting? Thanks.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Rodenbacher]

Hi David,

 

I just tried to make better photos, but my camera is a really cheap thing and I cannot find the right colur. Anyway, the colour is best in photo Nr 4, but a little darker. I would say a dark chocolate brown.

[Soshin]

Hi David,

 

I would say a dark chocolate brown.

 

Hi Rodenbacher,

 

Without correct color balance the patina can look way off. From the above quote and other information provided the tsuba this is likely a early Edo Period Owari tsuba. With that said I can't really confirm anything until I see the tsuba in hand give the photos provided. I like the design thanks for sharing.

 

 

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[christianmalterre]

Dear David,

 

good eyes!

i just do not correspond with early Edo here...in mine eyes,it´s rather mid,to(most probably for me here)late Edo.

The whole composition lacks(grace/finesse,as you did already mention...)and it looks rather bolt in comparence to the earlier Owari school(s).

(Here the seller was certainly right in mine eyes(like he did already write on his web-side...),just with that attribution to Shoami,me here-i do not really agree here.)

What is still struggeling me on this very Tsuba-is but the execution of the Hitsu-Ana,which does not give me an very good feeling/either way...

So,an late Owari tradition Tsuba which but-shows an very nice and prominent,typical theme,from the good old Momoyama to the early Edo tradition...

Christian

[Soshin]

Hi Christian,

 

In terms of age I would say that it is likely dependent of the characteristics of the iron including but not limited to the color. In Rodenbacher opening post he stated something about the tsuba having "iron bones" or tekkotsu along the rim. I was thinking this is more likely a characteristic of Owari Sukashi tsuba from early Edo Period. By the middle to late Edo Period the "iron bones" became very rare even in Owari tsuba generally speaking. I don't see any in his photographs but this type of detail of the iron requires a nice digital camera to document. I know this from my own personal experience. I do notice what you are talking about the poor shape of the kozuka and kogai hitsu-ana which may indicate a later production. I don't think really anything can be resolved until we have some better photos of the tsuba in question. For this very reason I paused my collecting to do some learning and purchased a new digital camera and other critical photographic equipment.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[edzo]

Dear Dave, Would a scanner be sufficient to capture the characteristics you would like to see?, Ed F

[Soshin]

Hi Ed F.,

 

It really depends on the tsuba. If the tsuba is flat all scanners I know of have a fix depth of field have no problems but a tsuba with a big change in height due to carving, hammering, style of open work, and overall change of the surface height can make parts of it appear out of focus obscuring some detail. Not to pick on Fred G. but here is a link to his website: http://www.swordsandtsuba.com/tsuba/nanbanpg1.html. Take a look at the third Nanban tsuba from the top and notice how out of focus it is. I have a nanban in my collection that did the very similar thing when I tried to scan it. Is this enough detail answer to your question?

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[edzo]

Dear Dave S, thanks for your time and in-put including the link. I have found that challenge and limitation in my efforts. It has been my experience, by experimentation with the scanner settings that I am able to achieve 5-6mm of clear depth of the object. I am also having some success with blades, using the scanner in identifying hada characteristics and hamon activity that is not easily apparent to the naked eye. Regards, Ed F PS. Don't know if it matters but I'm using an Epson Perfection V500 Photo scanner.

[Soshin]

Hi Ed F.,

 

I can see where a scanner would be better for Nihonto then tosogu. An additional reason I wanted to link to Fred G. website was that the tsuba he is selling look much better in person on then on website. Tonight after work I will post the nanban tsuba I own I was talking about in the earlier post.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[Soshin]

Hi Ed F.,

 

Here is the nanban tsuba I was talking about in my collection and the poor scan I did. Similar in a way to Fred G. problem posted on his website. Notice how the inside parts of the nanban-bori are so out of focus. I do notice that I did get a good contrast between the jet black sakudo mimi and the brownish-black color of nanban tetsu of the tsuba. I really need to re photograph this tsuba because it looks much better in hand then it does in this poor scan.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles

[edzo]

Dear Dave, I have a suggestion for you to experiment with. The first thing I see is that your item is plagued with shadows. What I do is put spacers on the bed to keep the top ¼ to ½ inch above the plate. Do it in a dark room or get a shroud for the scanner to keep the light out during the scan. Also boost the resolution to a high limit, it slows down the traveling bulb and gives it a chance to pick up more detail. The only adjustment I make to the resulting product is to adjust the brightness with the item in hand as a gauge to match the patina and color. There is one other trick you can buy an optical Plexiglas sheet small, from a cameras shop and with a pencil on the bed, lay the sheet down on top of it. Place the tsuba on top of that and proceed with the scan. This will allow you to produce a photo that captures the inner sides of the hitsu or nakago-ana. I would also take a tsuba and scan it, rotate it 45 degrees so that the tsuba has been scanned from four directions. You will see which position gets the best result. Don’t know if it will work for you but I seem to get some acceptable results. You will have to down-size the image for internet use. I use Microsoft Office picture manager. Hope this works for you, Regard Ed

[Rich T]

Just some late thoughts

 

a) the symmetry of the design - both can be seen in Owari and Shoami

b) the tekkotsu in the rim - both can be seen in Owari and Shoami

c) the rim is squared and not round-faced - both can be seen in Owari and Shoami

d) the dimensions: 8.3 x 8 x 0.5 cm - mute point

e) the form of the seppa-dai - the only qualifier for me.

 

The seppa dai of Shoami tsuba tend to be rounder and broader as a general rule, but this is not always the case. As Henry pointed out though the colour is very brown and while this can shout Shoami over Owari, it is also not the case. If yours is Owari, it's late, as in mid Edo I think. It is just as likely to be Shoami

 

 

Just as an exampe as to how these tsuba can cross many paths, here is one of my better Ko Shoami tsuba that has a ko niku kaku mini, tekkotsu, is black in colour and has features of several groups.

 

http://kodogunosekai.com/2010/05/02/ko- ... shi-tsuba-古正阿弥地透鍔/

 

The iron is Owari looking, the design is Shoami in style, it is published as a work of the Akasaka Nidai Tadamasa and papered to Ko Shoami by the NBTHK. I believe the NBTHK have it right.

 

These tsuba can be hard to pick. I tend to just love them for what they are and not get so hung up on what I think it is. There is no way to prove it anyway.

 

Rich

[Soshin]

Hi Rich,

 

Thanks for the link. I have just reread your blog about your Ko-Shoami tsuba. I was wondering about the kebori (毛彫) line carving on the surface of the tsuba. This intermix of line carving and ji-sukashi I have often in Akasaka school tsuba so I can understand the attribution in the book the tsuba was originally published in. But the point of my post is to ask the following question. Is kebori line carvings ever been seen on Owari Sukashi tsuba? I haven't ever seen any Owari Sukashi tsuba with line carvings but that does mean anything. Thanks for taking the time to answer my question.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David Stiles