george trotter Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 Hi all, I was just sent this ebay link to an auction for a WWII sword by Amaike Masatsune...so what you say, well, it is a guy called matt_bott who popped up here on 18 May and asked us to ID his two WWII swords...this we did (Chris Bowen, others and myself). Now I see "midwest-sellitnowstore" is selling the swords on ebay. If this is Matt who was so exited about studying them and asked us about them, then it appears he used us here to get "selling information" and now uses NMB and Chris and myself as the authority who verified his product. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0690406713 I am not happy about this as Matt did not mention he was an ebay dealer (who obviously intended to sell) and did not ask us for permission to use our names before using us as the authority to sell his wares. This can reflect on Chris and myself and also NMB. I am putting matt_bott on my list of "not to be answered". Any comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 George, It's like anything out there..people will do things like this, and there isn't much we can do about it. I look at it like I do the daily beggars who ask me for money in traffic...sometimes I give a buck, and if they choose to use it for booze, that is their problem. I did my bit, and it didn't hurt me, so I just show I am a decent person. Sorry, the words aren't flowing tonight. But basically, I give info where I can, and most people use it for good. Those few who misuse the help..it reflects on them, not me. In this case though, I don't mind the forum being mentioned, but I would strongly object to names being used. I would contact them and ask politely but firmly that the specific names be removed. They can name the site where they got the help, but have no right to mention anyone in particular. I am willing to contact them if you or Chris prefer? Let's not stress to much about people who abuse info provided. We still have far more people not like that, and perhaps we can give the benefit of the doubt occasionally and assume that maybe the owner only decided to sell after the info was given. Anyways..point is, there are far worse things in life... Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbvac Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 What Brian said is of course true but using your names is probably not a good way to win friends and influence people. Considering the size of the community bad news gets around fairly quickly and I would never use any info obtained on the board as a verification considering the replies are given without holding the blade in hand. That said if it is only a translation then - .//? Still poor practice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Doffin Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 Since Matt has bids he can't remove the names. He can't change what is already in place; he can only add to his description. Matt could end the auctions and relist without the names. If Chris or George feel strongly about this they can contact ebay and ask to have the auctions stopped, and ebay will do this (I know; tried it once myself). Grey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabowen Posted June 27, 2011 Report Share Posted June 27, 2011 I am not thrilled by it and can understand George's feelings but not much that can be done at this point...Plus the guy seems to be from my home state so I will let it pass this time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surfson Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 It is bad form to use the names without permission, but probably not illegal since the opinions were rendered on a public forum. It is shortsighted on the guy's part since he will not find many people rush to help him in the future unless he comes in to the NMB under an alias. Finally, I am curious as to whether it will affect the ultimate sales price. I think that all of those photos tell the story well. Without the info from the NMB, it might even pass as an older sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george trotter Posted June 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 Hi all, thanks for your comments and PMs. As you say, there is not much we can do about peoples' nature...and not much point raising Cain on ebay...better just to get on with life...I suppose though, as some have mentioned, it would be interesting to see what would happen if we got our advice wrong and then were held "responsible" for false advertising? Just for the record, I don't mind a dealer asking for accurate information to describe his sword..., I just wish he would be "up-front" and say he is a dealer, then at least we know where we stand. I will just keep matt_bott on my "this guy is a user" list for future reference. Oh well, time for my morning coffee... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bray Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 ...and not much point raising Cain on ebay... I asked a dealer(Westerner in Japan) on ebay by the name of Mackstar(long dead account - his reputation is documented in this forum) why he had sent the original Torokusho with the blade I bought off him. Next thing I know, my real name and address are on his auctions labeling me as a troublemaker. I complained to ebay and within a day, they had pulled all his auctions with my name in them and apparently issued him a warning. If you wish your name removed, it maybe possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_bott Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 I'm very sorry you guys feel this way. It was never my intention to offend anyone. I included your user names in order to give you guys credit for the work you did. At this point in time, I wish I would have asked permission, but I don't see what the big deal is? I feel like it is more rude to not give credit to you guys. Can someone explain why people are so angry? I posted your user name. Not your real name, address, phone number, ssn, ect. Also, I'm not a dealer. I'm just a guy who works at a consignment shop. I didn't disclose this information because I felt that people wouldn't post anything or they would ask me for money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_bott Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 If you guys are that upset about it, I'll pull the auctions and re-run them. Let me know what you want me to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_bott Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 I also feel that you guys are taking this out of context. All I said was "I would especially like to thank users Cabowen and George Trotter as they supplied majority of the information." I did not say "These swords have been professionally verified and confirmed by internet sword experts....." I am just trying to give credit where credit is due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george trotter Posted June 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 Actions speak louder than words...your actions show what you intended from the start...that's why you didn't say anything about auctions and ask us about using our names! Please take my name off the auction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_bott Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 I can see there is no satisfying you george. So your name is gone and so am I. I truly hope you can get past this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 Matt, I understand you wanting to thank them, and I expect your intentions are good. But you do have to understand that in this case, George has a book published on Japanese swords, and Chris is quite high up in the Nihonto world in the USA, and both are using their real names in their id's here, so there is little mistaking them. Now in effect, by thanking them for the info, you are saying that both of these guys verified the info given. Maybe not your intention, but see how that can be construed. I know that many top experts refuse to participate on various internet forums for this reason. It is not an easy situation. I have no problem with the forum being mentioned at all, but I think the issue of real names can be a problem that needs to be considered before listing them. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_bott Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 Brian, Thank you for explaining this to me. I had no idea that either of those users were so influential in the Nihonto world. I also did not know that their user names were their actual names, as the vast majority of people do not use their actual names on message boards. Had I known this, I would have not included their names in the auction. As I stated before, I know virtually nothing on the topic of Japanese Swords. I also wanted to point out that it was never my intention to deceive and I never lied about anything. These swords were given to me by a gentleman who told me that I could keep them or sell them if they had value. I do collect WWII items, but they are all German. Not knowing if these swords were even real, I turned to this board. At this time, I didn't know if they were for sale or not and didn't want to announce this if I was going to keep them. I am a student and work part time at an eBay consignment shop. After I thought they were real, I decided to list them at work in order to get the most money for the vet who brought these back. But you folks don't have to worry about me pestering you anymore. Brian, feel free to delete my account or ban me because I can see I'm not welcome here anymore. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Flynn Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 Obviously, no loss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabowen Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 I can't understand why people are so hard on this guy???? He seems sincere, wasn't out to screw anyone, and made a simple mistake....He apologized and offered to right the wrong...What more do people want? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbvac Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 I agree - he did want to give credit where credit was due and I am SURE if he had listed the blades on e-bay and said all that you guys had told him and NOT given an attribution for the information the S would have really hit the fan - one of those situations where there can't be a right or wrong way and as you said - he did try to rectify all. I would hate to guess how many folks on here for simple translations end up selling the blades somewhere using the information - heck at some time we will all sell something and include all information we have accumulated from ALL sources. I know more rules may not help but IF one is actually intending to sell and lets everyone know - if you dont want to help - so be it but on the other hand you never know Like patients asking me questions at cocktail parties - guess I could answer and then hand them a bill but it often doesnt work that way!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surfson Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 I think that his explanation is good enough. I take it that he is young as well, being a student, and not experienced in these things. I'm not an aggrieved party, but if I were I would forgive him and welcome him to use the NMB again (with a full disclosure!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george trotter Posted June 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 I see you have ended the auction...too bad ebay rules make you do that instead of just deleting the offending words...anyway, when you re-list, just leave my name off please. Whether you leave or not is up to you...I don't mind either way. For the record, I'll tell you what I resent...take it or leave it. You used my name for commercial purposes without asking. You used it on both sword auctions...even though I didn't comment at all on the Kanemichi...so you were misrepresenting me there. As for your "explanation" of good intentions and didn't mean any offence, and being a student, and selling the swords to give the money to a vet etc...sorry, I don't believe you...the evidence suggests otherwise. You are a dealer. You have almost 5000 transactions on ebay. You take totally professional photos...taken with a view to selling. You put the swords on ebay only a few days after you got your info here - using the same proffessional pics already taken. Give it a rest mate! I think you knew exactly what you were doing. Having said that, there is nothing wrong with being a dealer...it's how you deal. There are some first class members here who run sword related businesses...but they are up-front. If you had been up-front and said what you wanted and why there would have been no problem, I would have still helped you (and no, we don't charge a fee). So, there you have it...it's all in how you treat the members...it's up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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