retain or discard old habaki

[peterqu]

I was not surprised to hear from a fellow collector that the practice these days is to replace an habaki after having had a sword polished and placed in new shirasaya.I reflected on this and wondered whether this was indeed only a Western practice because I had purchased swords from Japanese dealers where the old habaki had been retained.Fairly recently I purchased a sword from a well known American dealer who had been collecting for over 30 years and the subject arose about which he had this to say ...

 

The old Japanese collectors at that time took pride in retaining a

> "serviceable" Habaki, if they were to have restoration. I have seen an

> old Habaki retained many times by Japanese collectors. You do not see

> this today. Such Japanese might never get their swords polished or may

> have never pursued papers - unless they were to sell. I have seen that

> many times; but you do not see this today. I have seen and heard of

> many, many occasions where a Kicho paper would be sought - nothing

> higher. Or later just a Hozon. No drive for a higher paper at all -

> and it was explained to me when I began collecting, by Japanese, that

> this was a matter seen as a proper conduct.

> In other words, the old Japanese collectors held a pride in such

> things as using old Habaki and in not chasing things with money. They

> held a pride in a strident conservatism. To be not garish and not

> flamboyant, specifically.

Perhaps we should think twice about replacing old serviceable habaki .I certainly will.Regards,

[Ian]

I was not surprised to hear from a fellow collector that the practice these days is to replace an habaki after having had a sword polished and placed in new shirasaya

 

I guess it depends on how much material has been removed by the polisher. The habaki needs to be a tight fit !

[sanjuro]

Whilst I can appreciate the theory that a habaki has to be a tight fit, this would be desirable on a sword that one would use and is an ideal held to by many collectors who may think that a polished sword with a tight fitting habaki is a sword in its correct condition. In this day and age we do not maintain swords in a ready to use condition, since they are now objects of history, either art or artifact, and many are in shirasaya. A tight fitting habaki is usually a new habaki, and this is surely in contravention of the preservation of a sword in its historical condition.

As we polish away the history of our swords in an effort to restore them, the original fittings are lost or become ill fitting. Most notable among these is the habaki because of its close contact with the blade in its original form. Perhaps the Japanese ideal of maintaining a sword in its 'as found' condition has some merit. All we do in having them retored and repolished is remove that which the sword originally posessed, and in the process we lose, micron by micron, the reality of each blade as it was originally created.

There are blades that have great value in an unpolished and original condition. they are unspoiled by a togishi's interpretation of what they once were intended to be, because make no mistake, a polished sword even by the most competent, talented and knowledgable togishi is only that togishi's interpretation of the tosho's intent and the proportions of the blade in question.

In a purist sense therefore, any further work other than the original polish, has corrupted the original work of the tosho.

It is in the final analysis a matter of conscience for each collector, bearing in mind that we are not owners but rather custodians.

 

Just a thoughtand some additional perspective on the subject. :D I add here the thought of another (some of you may recognise it).

 

"It is perhaps a partial statement, but none the less not far-fetched, to say that the sword appraisal agencies and sword clubs in modern Japan have made up and created a mind set for today's collectors; and have set them like sheep for the polished, papered "Packaged" sword products. - Little notice has been taken that the real Samurai swords, the actual swords of the Samurai - are being wholly altered, ground up by polishing and re-constructed, essentially ending their specific histories.

When a Temple or Shrine is completely reconstructed; or moved down the street to make way for a parking garage - is it the same?

One of the aspects for collectors is certainly polished, and papered swords; - And the other, however, are original, real Samurai antique swords. Nihonto.

The two are not the same

Many of the Japanese collectors would never bother changing, papering or altering their swords at all - of course, the why of this hasn't been loudly preached".

Sho-Shin

[Brian]

I'm one of those who had this debate with Peter, and singular comments from "old school" collectors in Japan not withstanding..I still maintain that if a sword is going for a complete polish and new shirasaya, then making use of an old habaki is not the way to go.

The same as polishers insist on a newly polished blade acquring a new shirasaya....a new habaki should be crafted. It just looks odd to have an old habaki on a sword with new polish and shirasaya, and I daresay that in 90% of the cases, a new polish will not allow the old habaki to sit properly.

I understand the arguments about original habaki having character and being preserved, but then why do we restore swords? Keep the original habaki by all means. Use it with the tsunagi in the old koshirae. But I cannot think one one valid reason why someone would keep an old habaki on a newly restored sword.

 

I understand there will be a host of beginners and novices with opinions on this, but I would really love the opinions of some of the older and more serious collectors on this issue. Comments?

 

Brian

[kusunokimasahige]

I think the only reason to change habaki should be fitting. If a polished blade results in the old habaki being loose, then change it. If the habaki which came with the original sword is contemporary and in good shape, like some of the silver sheet ones i have seen as well as some inlaid types fits well, why change it at all.

 

A shirasaya, one should never forget, is a sheath which keeps the sword when not in koshirae. It is a piece of wood, a carrier of no consequence but keeping the sword polish from scratching, and keeping the sword protected. Koshirae are the clothes, Shirasaya are the underwear of swords as far as i am concerned.

 

KM

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Brian,

Sorry; I disagree. The 1st time I sent a very good sword to Japan for polish & paper, I asked Mr. Sugiyama of the NBTHK if it would be possible to keep the habaki. He wrote back saying that while the habaki was a bit too loose he would see if it were possible to use it. When I received the sword back it had it's old habaki, which fit excellently well. Somehow it had been tweaked to make the fit proper.

It is a wonderful habaki on a wonderful blade (picture below); it would have been a shame to separate them.

Another time I had a mumei blade in old shirasaya, with Honami saya-gaki and a great copper habaki. The old shirasaya was split, cleaned, and reglued; it and the habaki stayed with the blade.

Grey

[paulb]

I am working towards the old still not sure I can claim knowledgeable

I have always gone along with the view that a newly polished sword should have new shirasaya and new habaki. This is the best way to ensure the correct fit in the saya and that no contamination from an old saya can damage the new polish. If the original habaki has some artistic or historical merit then it should be kept along side the blade but not fitted to it.

[b.hennick]

The last sword I had polished had a new habaki with the old habaki used to hold the koshirae with the tsunagi. I asked that the new habaki be made to look like the old habaki. That was done with no problem.

In the past I have had the old habaki reused as it fit reasonably well at other times the habaki was replaced. In every case I ask for the return of the old habaki which I keep with the blade.

Sooo no one answer. It depends of the fit of the habaki. I try to conserve where possible.

[Jean]

Few remarks:

 

Unless already loose, after a polish due to scant metal being removed, there should not be any noticeable change.

 

After quite a lot of polishes, the nakago is always thicker a few centimeters under the habaki. This means that the habaki is never has Tight as it should or one thinks....

[nagamaki - Franco]

In the end it will be the amount of change in the foundation polish which determines the need for a new habaki, let the polisher make that final decision.

[Lee Bray]

I say keep the old if it still fits and is still functional.

A new polish doesn't necessarily mean that the habaki loses fit and as it will not be cut with, I don't see the need for a super tight fit.

 

I have a Kamakura/Nambokucho tanto here in signed koshirae by Kajikawa, with a two piece gold and silver habaki in the shape of Mt.Fuji.

It's just come back from the restorer, new polish and shirasaya and we kept the old habaki. Fits perfectly and I much prefer the fact the habaki is old and original to the koshirae, not modern.

[cabowen]

Not sure where these romantic stereotypes of "old Japanese collectors" comes from but I can say that of all the Japanese collectors I have encountered, which is quite a few, I don't find the imagery very accurate.

 

As has been stated above, when polishing a sword, it is put into a new habaki and shirasaya as a matter of course. This is done to ensure a correct fit of all the components so that the blade is preserved. Let's not loose sight of the purpose of the habaki. If it no longer serves its purpose, it needs to be replaced. Most will use it on the tsunagi for the koshirae.

 

Sometimes, when a customer requests that the original habaki be reused, it can be reworked to fit as intended. Sometimes not. Most are not worth the effort.

 

Older swords have had many habaki in their lifetimes. The only one that was original is long gone. Many blades did not have a single original koshirae- the koshirae could be changed like one's clothes depending on the situation. The argument that the current habaki is original makes little sense- they are all beads on a string. This "keep everything original" concept comes from the sword as artifact collectors. Blades have been collected unto themselves, just as kodogu has, for hundreds of years. It is more a western construct to "keep everything unaltered/together for history". One need only look at how many original blade/koshirae sets there are in existence to see the importance placed on "keeping everything together" in Japan.

 

Keep in mind that up until the Haito Rei, swords were polished infrequently. People took care of them and didn't leave them in basements or try to polish them themselves. It wasn't until the runup to WWII that swords were brought out again and many had been sitting neglected and needed restoration. No doubt many habaki were reused but this had more to do with material shortages and economics, not some "strident conservatism", There is nothing flamboyant about replacing a habaki. It is simply common sense if preservation is one's goal. None of my Japanese collector friends, or craftsman, would advise reusing a habaki in most cases. I know this because I have asked most of them their thoughts on this at one time or another....

 

In the end, it is really simply- if you wish to reuse a habaki and it can be made to fit correctly, no reason not to do so. If it can't, don't......

[Lee Bray]

The argument that the current habaki is original makes little sense- they are all beads on a string. This "keep everything original" concept comes from the sword as artifact collectors.

 

Well, for me in this instance, keeping the original habaki was about the art, not artifact.

It's an artistic habaki and to recreate one the same...well, it just wasn't needed, it fitted. To discard it for a new one would be foolish, in my opinion.

[sanjuro]

Not withstanding the perspective of my previous post, in the case of a newly polished blade whose 'original' habaki has become a sloppy fit, it would be unwise to insist on the retention of the old habaki when a new one is clearly indicated. A poorly fitting habaki in combination with a new shirasaya would in fact allow small but unnecessary movement of the blade within the confines of the saya. In doing so it would negate to some degree the purpose of the shirasaya itself, which is with the aid of the habaki, to hold the blade immobile when sheathed. In reality, it would be unwise, indeed impossible to insist that all original habaki should be retained. Common sense dictates that the habaki of most swords have little or no historical significance that would outweigh the facility that a habaki is designed to provide. In the case of a badly fitting habaki, to the possible detriment of the blade itself.

 

This is one of those threads where all opinions are equally valid at least from one point of view.

[Jean]

You are entirely right Keith:

 

All depends on what we call polishing (which stage) and how the habaki was fitting before the new polish

[Brian]

Interesting comments, thanks folks. I lean towards what Chris said, and i think it is dangerous to try and get an idea of what "old school Japanese collectors" were like, as I am not sure they were much different from today. I think between the late 1800's and maybe after WW2, there were probably far fewer habaki makers than today, and perhaps many of the collectors back then kept old habaki on their swords out of necessity?

Either way, I agree that if the old habaki is a perfect fit, then by all means use it. If not...change it. No-one has suggested tossing the old one. It will work with the tsunagi or will be kept on its own. If it is special or well made, then even more reason to keep it. But if a common type and exibiting its age, then best to replace imho. But all points are valid here.

 

Brian

[chrisf]

Keith,I think your first post was right on the button in every respect and some years ago there was a fascinating article in a Token GB programme about 'old school' Japanese collectors who did/do exist who still own swords and fittings of great importance that have never been shown outside of their homes.With all due respect to you CAB,these are people that you,as a westerner are not likely to meet and just because you haven't met them doesn't mean they don't exist.

[cabowen]

I certainly make no claim to have personally met every collector in Japan, but after living there a good long while and spending untold hours in the homes of collectors and craftsman of every sort, with dealers all over Japan, at private auctions, museums, kantei meetings, with members of private collector groups, etc., I think I have a pretty reasonable sample size to speak from when I said, "Not sure where these romantic stereotypes of "old Japanese collectors" comes from but I can say that of all the Japanese collectors I have encountered, which is quite a few, I don't find the imagery very accurate."

[chrisf]

Chris,forgive me but I am not disputing the breadth and wealth of your experience,I have just looked up the article in the June 1998 programme and is written by Paul R. Allman 'Jewels from the Sands' and describes a story told by Robert Haynes about visiting a noble's house and viewing his collection of tsuba and also of another high ranking gentleman with a wonderful collection of koto swords in koshirae,never exhibited,never published and certainly never taken to kantei or public shinsa.

[Ted Tenold]

Chrisf, These are not the kinds of pieces, or collectors, that Chris B. or others are talking about. The collectors in the Allman article and their sequestered pieces fall way outside those the mainstream collecting community encounters and the items in their collections are no where near the same conditional or preservational considerations as the general topic of this discussion.

[cabowen]

My comments were in response to those made below by the OP, to wit:

 

"In other words, the old Japanese collectors held a pride in such

> things as using old Habaki and in not chasing things with money. They

> held a pride in a strident conservatism. To be not garish and not

> flamboyant, specifically."

 

I am at a loss to understand how your comments, below, relate to the above:

 

"story told by Robert Haynes about visiting a noble's house and viewing his collection of tsuba and also of another high ranking gentleman with a wonderful collection of koto swords in koshirae,never exhibited,never published and certainly never taken to kantei or public shinsa."

 

For what it is worth,I too met wealthy people with aristocratic backgrounds, and collectors who refused to submit blades to shinsa or show them publicly....They were both young and old....

 

What exactly is your point?

[sanjuro]

Chrisf.

 

I appreciate that you agree with the conservative side of collecting, and since it is my post that has drawn your original comment, I perhaps need to clarify the opinions I expressed. My comments were from the ultra conservationist perspective, and perhaps I delved too deeply into that philosophy, to include the entire sword rather than just the habaki. In so doing I have inadvertantly sparked a side debate.

In as much as habaki are concerned, I agree with the idea of retaining wherever possible the original habaki. I do not however advocate doing so to the ultimate detriment of the blade. An habaki is of a utilitarian nature and of secondary importance to the blade itself.

We are only considering the habaki and responding to the OP's question in this thread. Perhaps the collecting philosophy question is better dealt with seperately. :D

I apologise to all if those sentiments I expressed have detracted from the original question by introducing additional factors and considerations.

[BMarkhasin]

Gents,

 

I am not a nihonto collector, and only have a historical interest and appreciation in blades. To this effect, I will not enter into this debate. However from the perspective of a seasoned tosogu collector, it strikes me that we are losing perspective on the value of habaki. Lets not lose sight of the fact that a habaki is a quintessential tosogu element, having both a key functional role, as well as being an artistic element. Habaki have been around since the invention of the curve. We however have totally disregarded them from our collections and studies. We strive to attain Heian through Nanbokucho blades, but we don't realize that although extremely rare, there are examples of period habaki which have survived. I think this goes back to the point that a member made about swords generally being better maintained and far less frequently polished historically. I suggest that before discarding habaki, or replacing them, we take the time to study them and make an educated judgement if they are simple later functional pieces, or if they have age and warrant preservation in their own right.

 

Although collections of habaki are rare and unusual, some of the best are owned by those associated with papering organizations as well as polishers. These I can only assume were removed from submissions, and owners who did not care enough or know enough about their historic habaki to retain them.

 

For what its worth, there are my two yen.

 

Best Regards,

Boris.

[nagamaki - Franco]

we are losing perspective ... We however have totally disregarded them from our collections and studies. We strive to attain Heian through Nanbokucho blades .... we don't realize that although extremely rare .... we take the time to study them ....

 

"We" as in you speaking for yourself I hope.

[paulb]

Just to be clear I dont think anyone was suggesting discarding old habaki. The point was whether after a blade had been repolished the original habaki would do the job for which it was intended. If not and considering the relative cost of replacing it compared to the expense in having a blade polished, a new habaki would seem to make sense.

Alongside some very oridinary and utilitarian habaki there are some excellent examples of the artist's craft and as you say Boris these should be preserved and studied in their own right.

[Ford Hallam]

I'd also like to add that in having new habaki made (and not necessarily throwing old ones in the bin ) modern collectors are helping to keep the crafts associated with the sword alive for the future. I believe this point is very well appreciated in Japan today, perhaps encouraged by the artisans themselves, and had it not been for a similar sentiment prevailing in the past we'd have a lot less "stuff" to enjoy.

 

Although, come to think of it, there are those who'd have us believe that everything made after the end of the Momoyama period is irrelevant anyway

 

I think Paul has summed the situation up perfectly.

[b.hennick]

Although I have never seen one i have been told that there are iron habaki. If I come across one I would certainly want to keep it with the blade. Has anyone here seen an iron habaki?

[Ford Hallam]

I've seen a couple. One in particular was quite corroded, almost an archaeological artefact, and judging from the proportions it was on a pretty beefy blade. Apparently it was judged to be Kamakura period. The owner used it on his key chain and I must admit it was/is a very appealing object.

[kaigunair]

I was just talking to a well respected togishi about this yesterday. As it was my first time consulting for a polish of a gendaito blade, he metioned about habaki replacement as part of the polish price. I didn't think anything was wrong with the current habaki, so I asked him why habaki's needed to be replaced or not, and what his judgement in this case was. Since a new habaki wasn't cheap (in my eyes), I asked alot of questions regarding it.

 

Again, we were talking about a gendaito which was ubu-ba and was in pretty good shape. I think this would be important since not once did he mention that the habaki would need to be replaced due to a ill fit after a polish. Again, this could be because of the type of nihonto I was showing him. This thread was the first time I've heard about replacement due to ill fitting so I'm sure he did not mention that yesterday. The reasons he gave for a new habaki in my case was two-fold: for preference and incase the old habaki might scratch the new polish. In the latter, he didn't stress it was due to the size of the habaki and the change in blade shape after a polish, but that maybe the habaki was damaged underneath, or mishapened due to use/age, or dirty.

 

It could have been that he was in fact referring to size/ill fitting causing the scratch, and didn't realize a novice like me would think otherwise. With regards to the particular blade we were discussing, he felt there was no need for a new habaki except for preference. He did lament the cost of gold re: making nicer habaki's.

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Although I have never seen one i have been told that there are iron habaki. If I come across one I would certainly want to keep it with the blade. Has anyone here seen an iron habaki?

 

Boris own one. We're researching that early blade, surely earlier than Kamakura.