Assistance with tsuba design

[RobertM]

Hi all, Would anyone be able to identify this design? Signed Kufo Ju Yukiyoshi.

 

Many thanks

 

Rob M

[kusunokimasahige]

So YOU were the one who outbid me !

 

 

KM

[Clive Sinclaire]

Rob

I think it is a zodiacal or constellation design

Clive Sinclaire

[Ian]

Hi Rob

 

It's Shippo, see #1541

on http://www.japaneseswordbooks.com/Fitti ... anchor_123

[Thierry BERNARD]

shippo pattern

[Lorenzo]

I don't know the name of that particular pattern, but indeed the first tsuba design represent a sashiko (Japanese pattern) google sashiko images and you will find one equal soon.

[reinhard]

I agree with Clive here. There is one spot in the upper area having a resemblance to shippo, but most of the design has not. Sukashi is probably depicting a particular star constellation. For comparison see the menuki in the attachment (celestial dragon represented by seven stars).

 

reinhard

[Soshin]

I agree with Clive here. There is one spot in the upper area having a resemblance to shippo, but most of the design has not. Sukashi is probably depicting a particular star constellation. For comparison see the menuki in the attachment (celestial dragon represented by seven stars).

 

reinhard

 

 

I think you are correct in regards to the ko-sukashi design of a star constellation of seven stars forming a celestial dragon. The design is not complete enough to be shippo.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David S.

[RobertM]

Thanks to all for the information. I've been looking through various star constellations, but I guess these constellation are stylised which makes the task difficult.

 

rob m

[Ian]

Hmmm, Geometric star constellations?

Take a look at this Tanto Koshirae!

[John A Stuart]

Can you spot the ones they might be? John

[reinhard]

Hmmm, Geometric star constellations?

Take a look at this Tanto Koshirae!

 

This koshirae is mingei. You are aware of this, aren't you?

 

BTW The proximity to shippo (-design) in all of the afore-mentioned examples was intentional.

 

reinhard

[Ford Hallam]

Reinhard,

 

it appears to bear an inlaid mei which would seem to remove it from the designation of folk craft as defined by Yanagi. At least we can say the maker of this koshirae is not an "Unknown Craftsman" a la Yanagi's conception of what constitutes mingei.

[reinhard]

Just telling from overall style and craftsmanship. - BTW Who was Yanagi?

 

reinhard

[Ford Hallam]

Soetsu Yanagi was the man who coined the term "mingei" in 1926. He wrote a book called "The Unknown Craftsman" which propounds the concept.

 

He established a museum, the Mingeikan, to preserve and promote folk crafts which he feared would be neglected and abandoned as Japan rushed to embrace the modern world. Here's a link to their website where you can read more about the philosophy and the various proponents.

 

This is his definition of Mingei as explained in his book and on the website.

 

PRECISE

MINGEI CRITERIA

By Mingei, Yanagi initially referred to handicrafts of pre-industrial periods. A Mingei object had to meet precise criteria defined by Yanagi. Mingei work had to be:

 

made by anonymous crafts people

produced by hand in quantity

inexpensive

used by the masses

functional in daily life

representative of the region in which it was produced.

Yanagi described the beauty of Mingei with words such as wholesome, honest, natural, innocent, free, simple, and pure.

[christianmalterre]

Hello,

 

well i am very sorry-but i do not see any "Stars-Constellation" here.

This is rater an pure stilistic ellement-seen quite ofthen.

 

Here just for reference one(in the 2016 Lot) which is just actually on sales-tables: http://www.auction.de/catalogues/epaper ... .html#/116

 

Christian

[Ian]

Hello All

This koshirae is mingei. You are aware of this, aren't you?

 

Hmmm, Folk art?

 

it appears to bear an inlaid mei which would seem to remove it from the designation of folk craft

 

Yes it dose, see attached!

 

Sorry to detract Rob

[reinhard]

Mingei work had to be:

 

made by anonymous crafts people

produced by hand in quantity

inexpensive

used by the masses

functional in daily life

representative of the region in which it was produced.

 

Thank you for the link and info, Ford. I didn't know that.

 

Now that we can see the entire koshirae, do you agree with me that this koshirae matches most, if not all criteria?. It was hand made in a simple way. No precious materials nor outstanding skills were involved. It was not to be worn by a samurai. Wether it was functional in daily life or what region it was made in I cannot tell though. Remains the question what the mei means here. Can it be attributed to an individual artist or is it just a kind of trademark? I haven't found out yet.

 

I was bringing up the term "mingei" in a more casual and unreflected way to consider the differences between sophistication associated with educated samurai, eventually including star-constellations, and pure, ornamental design with a resemblance to the afore-mentioned.

 

reinhard

[Mantis dude]

just ran across this on yahoo.jp a moon and star constellation menuki mounted on a tsuka with no wrap.

http://page7.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/g102932109

[Ford Hallam]

Reinhard,

 

the fact that this koshirae "affects"(ie; pretends to) am unrefined appearance and leads one to believe that it's a simple and unexceptional piece of work is, I believe, exactly what marks it out as not being mingei.

 

The surface of the saya and tsuka for instance didn't happen by chance or as a by-product of the shaping of the wood. This is a very concious and carefully created effect. It's utterly contrived. For this reason alone it would not meet Yanagi's definition.

 

Mother of pearl and coral are relatively precious in traditional crafts terms and certainly the shaping and inlaying of the pattern is no mean feat. I don't see it as a bit of easy work knocked out on the cheap.

 

The menuki is, admittedly, not particularly refined and does, perhaps, have a slight feel of mingei about it but as that bit is purely decorative it's appearance on this koshirae further suggests, to me at least, that this was therefore not a purely utilitarian mounting.

 

I agree that this probably wasn't made for nor worn by a member of the Bushi but that doesn't automatically relegate it to mingei status either.

 

I think that it's all a matter of interpretation though. One could very easily argue that the vast majority of early iron guards are also mingei, by applying Yanagi's definition;

 

made by anonymous crafts people (very few are signed)

produced by hand in quantity (self evident)

inexpensive ( they had to be for low ranking warriors to afford them)

used by the masses ( masses of low ranking warriors)

functional in daily life ( some believe they are to protect the hand in battle...fairly practical :D )

representative of the region in which it was produced. ( The apparent basis of classification of schools/groups)

 

A more subtle appreciation, I'd suggest, of what Yanagi means by the term can only really be gained by reading and reflecting on his extensive writings.

 

regards,

 

Ford

 

p.s. I think the design on Bob's tsuba is a shippo design that has merely been shown in a "broken" manner to affect a feeling of decay. This is a common enough effect and I'm unconvinced by attempts to force the constellation theory onto these very distinctly shaped patterns. The connecting lines on constellation patterns are always thin, equal thickness lines whereas the shippo design is made up of elongated ellipses that are thicker or equal in thickness to the dots.

 

p.p.s. I don't regard early iron guards as mingei really but karate obviously is. :D

[Bob M.]

If a straight edge is applied to the image , it will be seen that both parts of the design are in almost exact register with each other - this strongly suggests 'extracts' from an overall shippo pattern . The two pieces of design should be read together and not as two seperate elements .

[RobertM]

Thanks guys, could someone explain the term shippo for me

[John A Stuart]

It seems shippo is an old pattern based on animal tails 尻尾. There is a pattern called shippo tsunagi where tsunagi 繋ぎ is a linked pattern. John

[Guido]

Talking about making heads and tails of it LOL: no animal tails (shippo) but "the seven treasures 七宝" (shippô).

[Soshin]

Thanks guys, could someone explain the term shippo for me

 

 

Hi Robert M.,

 

Here is a write up I did about the Shippo design as I have it on a sukashi tsuba in my collection. I hope you find the information helpful.

The seven treasures reference has a Buddhist origin and refers to the seven treasures that adore the western pure-land paradise. The seven treasures (七寶) are (1) suvarṇa (金, gold); (2) rūpya (銀, silver); (3) vaiḍūrya (琉璃, aquamarine); (4) sphaṭika (頗梨, crystal); (5) musāragalva (硨磲, conch shell or white coral); (6) lohita-muktikā (赤珠, ruby); and (7) aśmagarbha (瑪瑙, emerald). This design is also often seen on Edo period cloths.

 

 

 

Yours truly,

David S.

[Ford Hallam]

The term is also used to denote enamel work in Japanese apparently because the 7 treasures David just noted corresponded to the jewel-like colours of early enamels.

[John A Stuart]

Here is a picture of shippo tsunagi. It was a case of where the seven treasures pattern came from before the Buddhist influx in Japan since the design predates it. John