Tadatusa on the bay!

[Masamune]

This looks good to me, Any input form the board?

http://cgi.ebay.com/BEST-Antique-Japane ... 2eb49a3b04

[John A Stuart]

2nd generation, Awataguchi Ikkanshi Tadatsuna. From Harima mid 17th century, Horeki. John

[Stephen]

be a bear to find that one missing piece

[george trotter]

Thanks Stephen,

interesting what pops up on the ebay....you are right about the missing fitting...might be a job for Ford?

 

Geo.

[Stephen]

Geo

 

Yes if i had the money and going to win id mos deff have Ford give it a go.

[nihonto1001]

This sword has a lot of sori. Was it normal for Nidai Tadatsuna to work with so much sori? I thought the general rule was for Shinto swords to be less curvey.

 

Jon

[David Flynn]

deeper sori came back after Kanbun.

[Mark]

i would think the bidders would do research. the shape and sori bother me, placement of the mei and nakago shape seem unusual. The hori is not t he usual theme Tadatsuna did but that does not preclude it being right

[Jacques D.]

Hi,

 

placement of the mei and nakago shape seem unusual.

 

I fully desagree,

 

I would add, the horimono looks to be made by Tadatsuna (Nidai)

 

[nihonto1001]

What I don't understand is why so many would bid on the sword this early on. Logic would dictate waiting until the end of the auction. I am not saying the bids are not legit, but why bid up the price if you are looking out for your own best interest?

 

Jon

[Ian]

If it seems too good to be true________________

[gab72]

What I don't understand is why so many would bid on the sword this early on. Logic would dictate waiting until the end of the auction. I am not saying the bids are not legit, but why bid up the price if you are looking out for your own best interest?

Jon

 

Sound strange for me too. If you take a look to message the stuff seem too good to be true.

I think this is arctifact to rise up the final price of this auction.

In anyway I like a lot the koshirare but blade don't look so good for my taste, IMHO.

[Jacques D.]

Hi,

 

Maybe it is tactical to avoid having too much competition (knowing the real value of this object).

[Ian]

Is this a Flaw?

 

Also too long?

 

It would be such a shame if it is!

[cabowen]

Anyone here thinking of bidding would do well to research this smith thoroughly......

[eternal_newbie]

What I don't understand is why so many would bid on the sword this early on. Logic would dictate waiting until the end of the auction. I am not saying the bids are not legit, but why bid up the price if you are looking out for your own best interest?

 

Jon

 

Apologies if this is straying too far from the topic...

 

Unfortunately a great many people - myself included - often spend far too much time thinking about what they are attempting to purchase and not enough about how they are trying to purchase it. Some reasons I have heard so far from questioning people who do this:

 

"I'm trying to psych out bidders by showing I'm serious right from the start" (or just make them feel like the item MUST be worth getting)

"I didn't realize you could raise your maximum bid" (you can)

"My maximum bid would be the same no matter when I place it, so what's the difference?" (you're more likely to get it for less than your maximum if you hold out)

"I'm not going to be here when the auction ends" (fair enough, but you're probably better off using an auction sniper like Gixen)

"This way it shows up in my bidding history" (you know there's a watchlist, right?)

 

and my personal favourite:

 

"It's more exciting this way" (maybe save your $2000 and go skydiving)

 

But yes, the best strategy is to wait until the last moment possible and put in your maximum bid, and then walk away so you don't get "caught up in the moment" and ending up paying much more than you intended - or indeed, more than you can afford. And this way you don't have to be too worried that the bid was artificially inflated, as you were always willing to spend that much and not a dollar (or your local unit of currency) more.

 

Rohan G

[kusunokimasahige]

What is wrong with putting in your max bid early knowing that you are not willing not spend any more than your max bid on the item ?

 

Of course the snipers among us like to put in a massive bid 1 second before the auction ends, especially if the highest bid is still below their own maximum...

 

KM

[Ian]

Of course the snipers among us like to put in a massive bid 1 second before the auction ends

 

A big gamble to take without the sword in your hand !

 

I'm not even sure the theme is the same on the tsuka and saya?

[Masamune]

We will see the telephone numbers on this one! And I dont bid till the last 5 seconds. Sniping is the only way to go.

[kusunokimasahige]

Well I aint bidding, think it is hideous.

Dont have the money either though XD

 

To be honest, dont like the blade, its shape, the Horimono with the fish is something different, dont like the red saya and the rest of the fittings i think are ugly too, the rattan binding, the copper tsuka parts, nope.... just not my taste...

 

I actually only like the three bird menuki !

 

SRRY.... !!

 

It is a strange and special looking sword though.... and must be attractive to many collectors because it is definetely not main stream.

 

KM

[Mark]

the kissaki and especially the ko-shinogi have a strange look

[cabowen]

the kissaki and especially the ko-shinogi have a strange look

 

 

Not strange at all once you research the smith and reach the correct conclusion....

[reinhard]

The nengo is Hoei (not Horeki) roku nen...

 

The waterfall-ascending carp theme is one of Ikkanshi TADATSUNA's original designs for horimono. It is quite rare though. Design and execution of the horimono of the blade in question are not very good. Taking into consideration the mei saying: "hori dosaku", i.e. "the maker of the blade also engraved the horimono" should rise a red flag.

 

The mei is quite close to the original, but it is in all probability gimei. Check Ikkanshi's signatures with a Hoei nengo and look at the kanji for "ei" in "Hoei" (see attachment for comparison).

 

This is not supposed to be the substitute for a real expertise with the blade in hand. All I'm saying is: Be careful with objects like these.

 

BTW, the koshirae is a textbook example of a koshirae made for export.

 

reinhard

[John A Stuart]

Reinhard, I see you picked up on where I mention Horeki. I was not dating this sword, but, putting down the period covered by Hawley's date of production 1661, I should have said Meireki @ TAD 268 John

[Sporkkaji]

What is wrong with putting in your max bid early knowing that you are not willing not spend any more than your max bid on the item ?

 

Because if you put in an early max bid, you give other bidders a chance to jack up the price as they competitively try in increments. Hypothetically say the most you're willing to pay for a certain item is $1,000 and there are at least two bidders who are serious about buying it.

 

If you put in your max bid of $1,000 an hour before the end of the auction, that other guy can come along and bid $750 (Darn!) then $775 (Darn!) then $800 (Darn!).....etc. Before you know it he has driven up the price and you've won, but for the full $1,000.

 

In that same situation if you wait until the absolute last moment, there's no chance for anyone to come behind you. Let that other guy bid his $750 first (Yay, I'm the high bidder). A second before the end, bid your $1,000 and you've just won it for $775.

[cabowen]

This is my opinion only:

 

While the general shape of the kanji is close, it seems tentative and to lack the natural confidence and power of the original as posted above. Study the vertical strokes in the "kan", "ei" and "gatsu" kanji. They look weak and tentative.

 

Look at how the pacing and spacing seems loose in general, but especially in the "awataguchi" sequence.

 

The kanji for two, "ni", is gracefully formed from beginning of the strokes to the end, while the auction item is awkward, like two sticks laying on the ground. The kanji for month, "gatsu" is equally awkward- it is box-like and lacks the natural flair of the reference mei.

 

Additionally, the placement of the date appears too far to the left.

 

I could go on but I think this is sufficient....

 

I generally do not comment on auctions but in this case I am making an exception....

[Ian B3HR2UH]

Thanks for your comments Chris . Much more enlightening than you previous cryptic ones. When I first saw this sword I thought wow I will have a crack at it however my ardour has since cooled . A number of things concerned me

1. As you said the date characters didnt line up on the nakagos ridge although some mei that I have seen in the books don't either

2.The gap between the bottom horizontal stroke of the Tada and the top horizontal stroke of the Tsuna seems too great even allowing for the photo being blown up. See the example above and that in the book Japanese swords in Dutch collections

3. the gap between the Tsuna character and the Hori do saku is too large

4. The point is too long . The NBTHK English journal 15 says that the kissaki is generally in medium size and sometimes was shaped slightly longer than usual . This Kissaki looks way longer than any that I have seen of Tadatsuna"s in the books

Ian B

[Surfson]

I think that the signature is good, although many of the issues discussed are part of the "wall of worry". The sword went for over $17,000, so a few others thought it was good too!

[cabowen]

I think that the signature is good, although many of the issues discussed are part of the "wall of worry". The sword went for over $17,000, so a few others thought it was good too!

 

While the signature, horimono quality, and blade shape all point elsewhere, I hope for the winner's sake it is good as $17K is a lot of money for a gimei wakizashi in what looks like export koshirae....Guess we will never know....

[Lee Bray]

A polished and papered Tadatsuna wakizashi sold for 18k through Shibata so I hope those fittings are worth a heck of a lot.

17k on a gamble which won't pay off even if it's good...weird...