too big to handle

[werner]

Hi,

 

Just came across the "longest Odachi" in (I guess the world) Japan....what would be the purpose of such a thing? Displaying the artists ability? Shrine?

 

http://japantrip.tripod.com/nodachi/norimitsu.html

 

Don't thing that this would be classified as a "consealed weapon".... )

 

Jock

[Wickstrom]

Imagine trying to keep that thing evenly heated during forging, Wow.

 

Thanks for sharing the article, Jock

[werner]

Hi Andrew,

 

My pleasure....I had exactly the same thoughts....not exactly the average size....guess that no workshop has a setup to do this....heating/cooling/ etc...working on it must be like a marathon...must be about 5 min walking time to go from the nakago to the kissaki.....try to hide this one in a boot when you go for battle...

 

It must have been a lot of work just to prepare for the production....

 

Jock

[cabowen]

I think that might be the one polished by Fujishiro some years back. I was at his shop when he had just finished it. He said he had to move the stones on the blade because it was too big to hold and move against the stones. He said the workmanship was outstanding...

[Wickstrom]

He said the workmanship was outstanding...

 

Makes me wonder why it was signed Bishu instead of Bizen, Seems like a pretty deserving blade

[Jean]

Makes me wonder why it was signed Bishu instead of Bizen,

Why?

[leo]

The oversized nakago(even for a nodachi) makes me think this was intended for real use, not for exhibition in a shrine.

A sword of this size can only be used as a nagamaki anyway, maybe by a kind of huge Muromachi Benkei?

 

Happy New Year to All!

Martin

[Ken-Hawaii]

Nagamaki?? Surely you jest!! Show piece only, I'm sure.

 

And why is the curator handling the blade with bare hands??

[Eric H]

An outstanding and unique masterwork by this Osafune (Gorozaemon?) Norimitsu

for sharing

Eric

[Wickstrom]

Please correct if I am wrong, Jean as your knowledge of nihonto greatly supersedes mine. Anyway doesn't Bishu usually indicate a blade of low or mediocre quality and Bizen is typically saved for higher quality or custom ordered blades?

[cabowen]

Please correct if I am wrong, Jean as your knowledge of nihonto greatly supersedes mine. Anyway doesn't Bishu usually indicate a blade of low or mediocre quality and Bizen is typically saved for higher quality or custom ordered blades?

 

 

Bishu was used on many kazu uchi mono but it is not always the case that blades signed Bishu are inferior.....

[Jean]

Andrew,

 

It was just to precise the matter.

 

Chris is right, but it depends on the period

 

Let's be clear there is a Bishu Sukesada which is Juyo token, I have seen Bishu Sukesada and other Bizen swords not being Kazu uchi mono, but here we are talking of sue Muromachi.

 

This blade is an Eikyo one. In the Fifteenth century and before it has never been a synonim of inferior quality/mediocrity.

 

A lot of jo saku smiths signed Bishu in this era. Former in my collection, here is a Bishu Osafune Yoshimitsu, jo saku smith, in the 1450's.

[Wickstrom]

Andrew,

 

It was just to precise the matter.

 

Chris is right, but it depends on the period

 

Let's be clear there is a Bishu Sukesada which is Juyo token, I have seen Bishu Sukesada and other Bizen swords not being Kazu uchi mono, but here we are talking of sue Muromachi.

 

This blade is an Eikyo one. In the Fifteenth century and before it has never been a synonim of inferior quality/mediocrity.

 

A lot of jo saku smiths signed Bishu in this era. Former in my collection, here is a Bishu Osafune Yoshimitsu, jo saku smith, in the 1450's.

 

Thank-you Chris and Jean for correcting me. I definitely see what you mean when I compare My Sukesada to the yoshimitsu you posted Jean. I'll make sure to keep that in mind next time I shop around for Bizen-den swords.

[Jean]

Andrew,

 

And don't forget that in sue Muromachi/Bizen the right syntax for a long mei was:

 

Bizen Kuni Ju Osafune ......

 

and not

 

Bizen Kuni Osafune Ju .......

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

I think that might be the one polished by Fujishiro some years back. I was at his shop when he had just finished it. He said he had to move the stones on the blade because it was too big to hold and move against the stones. He said the workmanship was outstanding...

 

Guess you're right :

 

 

 

The oversized nakago(even for a nodachi) makes me think this was intended for real use, not for exhibition in a shrine.

A sword of this size can only be used as a nagamaki anyway, maybe by a kind of huge Muromachi Benkei?

 

hehehe... It's either made for

 

a) votive resons

b) like an army standard

c) to show the skill of the maker (possibly together with one of the previous options).

[estcrh]

An interesting discussion on the subject of these extra long swords "nagatachi'' from: Proceedings of the Numismatic and Antiquarian Society of Philadelphia 1891. Also an interesting discussion on the origins of Japanese swords.

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=J2UUAA ... utput=text

 

 

 

By Edward Gilbertson, Esquire, of Ilfracombe, Devonshire, England, " the leading English collector of Japanese swords and mounts,"

 

"I can learn nothing about the nagatachi, or 'long tachi' several examples of which exist in England, one of them being in my own collection, and several others are preserved in various temple treasuries in Japan. One, at the temple of Gongen, at Oji, has a blade four feet one inch long, with a tang two feet one inch, implying a total length from the pommel to the end of the scabbard of about seven feet three inches. That of Noritsune, at Itsukushima, made by Yukiyoshi, has a blade four feet eight and a half inches in length, weighing fourteen pounds; and another blade at the same place is seven feet three inches long from the pommel to the end of the scabbard. My own has a blade four feet two and a half inches long, the total length being six feet two inches, made by Fujiwara Hiromoto in 1838, the year of the accession of the Shogun Iyetoshi; but it has no mon connecting it with him.

"It seems clear to me that none of these could ever have been used as weapons. They require two men to draw them, and although a strong man might wield them, mine, at least, is so ill-balanced that it would be a most inconvenient weapon: for an active opponent could easily run within the guard of a man using such a sword, making him practically defenceless. My own conviction is, that they were merely processional swords, borne before or after the Shogun or great daimios on certain occasions, more especially as their style of mounting is that belonging to commanders. I ought, however, to state that the Kogeishirio says, unless the interpreter has given me an incorrect translation, that one of these nagatachi, seven feet four inches long, was worn by a member of the Fukuma family. This would nullify my theory, but 1 still doubt the correctness of that statement. I cannot conceive it to be probable that any man would go into battle with a weapon of that length dangling in front of him. He could only hold the scabbard, while some one else .drew his sword for him; and, when that was held by .him. he would be encumbered by about five feet of heavy and useless scabbard."