Help with Star stamped shingunto please.

[chino556]

Hi all,

 

Happy New Year!! Well, fresh off the sting of my cheap chinese knockoff purchase, I followed the advise in the thread I put in the general discussion and ordered the new book Brian reviewed, and visited my local half-priced book store and turned up a copy of Yumoto's Samurai Sword handbook and done some more reading here also. Anyway, not to be discouraged, and totally infected with the nihonto bug, I went back to the shop where I got the fake and they do also have what appears to be an actual genuine nihonto. I am hoping that someone can confirm for me that the star stamp makes this one a gendaito,it balances well in the hand and feels good. I talked them into letting me take it apart and get some pictures. I forgot to measure it but it appears to be about 26inches long give or take a little. It is in what appears to be very beat up type 98 koshirae, the tsuka needs rewrap or repair..or replace? The tsuba is also marked with a couple stamps. The saya is missing the end piece but otherwise ok. The star stamp is difficult to see in the pics but is located right where the polished part and the darker part meet under the habaki. I couldn't really make out any hada but the hamon looks interesting...not sure what to call it, but I like it. It also seems to be in good polish with no nicks, dings, rust or major stains and only a few light scratches. As for the edge, well its not dull but not razor sharp either. It has mei on both sides as well as a stamp on the back of the nakago, can anyone help with translation? They have it priced at $1200, is this a good price? If not, what would be a good price? What will I be looking at for restoration of existing koshirae? How about replacing the koshirae? I am mostly looking for a blade for martial arts, but also appreciate historically correct items as well. Should I look for something in better condition? Considering all the blades that I have seen on the internet, that I like, are 2500 and up...1200 doesnt seem too bad. Thank you very much in advance for any help and advice.

 

Cris H.

 

Edited to add signature and better pics of the mei.

[huntershooter]

The Star stamp does indicate Nihonto. Might try the search function for additional information.

The mei/nakago shots are small and are oriented sideways. I think I make out Shige something.

Others will be of more help.

As to value, quite subjective. I would not hesitate at $1200 for a Star stamp blade in good condition.

I have a couple (star stamped) blades that would not be my first choice for use in martial arts, again this is purely subjective.

Let us know how you make out.

[Brian]

Hi,

Please don't forget to sign all posts with a name.

If the blade is ok with no fatal flaws, and is indeed a star stamp Gendaito, then the price would be good. I think a RJT "Star Stamp" blade would be too good for martial arts, but maybe that's just me. The healthy machi look to possibly indicate this one hasn't been polished since made, so it has good possibilities. Will they give you credit for the fake they sold you?

 

Brian

[chino556]

Brian,

 

I edited my post with signature...sorry. As for credit on the fake...well i didn't ask, i figured it was my fault for being ignorant...it was only $150 bucks so I figure that was the price of a good lesson...you get what you pay for. Oh well. Martial Arts is not really my primary purpose, but I would like to know that this blade could cut if needed. Also added some more pics, better view hopefully. The habaki apears to be made of aluminum. Also, there is a tag on the sword that says shige fusa. Also, did anyone notice below the mei the ...well not sure what to call them but they look like mekugi-ana that have been plugged. There are two spots. You can see one in star9 just to the left of the last character...any ideas what those are?? Thanks again.

 

Cris H.

[huntershooter]

Yes, I'll buy ShigeFusa.

There is an RJT (Rikugun Jumei Tosho) listed on Mr. Steins site; (Kojima) Shigefusa.

Rest assured that the RJT blades were DESIGNED to cut...

The habaki on RJT blades I have seen have all been silver washed copper, as this one appears to be.

Not sure what the "spots" are you refer to. They do not appear plugged ana, rather dents or something.

[Stephen]

David McDonald can take care of the Tsuka quite well. i think what your calling dents is foring flaws.

[Brian]

Sorry, but I see those as filled ana too, with the yasurime done afterwards. Not sure why, but not a big deal imho.

Also, my last Gendaito, a RJT one too, has an original aluminium habaki. Not plated, but 100% well done aluminium. It was very late war though. Not sure if this one is aluminium or not, but they do exist.

 

Brian

[Nobody]

Sorry, but I see those as filled ana too, with the yasurime done afterwards. Not sure why, but not a big deal imho. .......................

And that means that the mei and date were inscribed after those makugiana had been filled.

[Brian]

The yasurime don't really line up with the rest of the lines perfectly, so maybe someone cut the yasurime over those plugs after they had been done, to complete the look?

 

Brian

[huntershooter]

Yes, I see the plugged ana in the last photo. Good eye Brian.

At close inspection I agree yasurime was added to plugs. The individual lines do not quite line up with the rest of the yasurime in the last photo. The "original" yasurime appears to have been done before the plugs, before the mei/nengi (as usual).

I have not seen this on an RJT blade before.

[Stephen]

what i get for not looking at all the photos. about a decade back when JSS/US was running articles about Star stamps...a flood hit the market...not saying this is a fake but let the workmanship tell.

[cabowen]

It is indeed odd. Not the best quality star stamped blade but would be fine for martial arts...

 

I would like to see a photo of the complete date. Seems there are some rather odd punch marks as well here....

[chino556]

Hi all,

 

 

Thanks for the comments all. Well, this has been moved from nihonto to military, is the verdict not gendaito? So how is the price now? Can you give me a ballpark figure on what the koshirae restoration would be?

 

Chris, I think the picture you are looking for was too big and is sandwiched between the tsuba and the last picture in the original post (star8). There is also a stamp on the mune...sorry the picture is blurry and a picture of the star itself, everyone see that one? So on the mei, which is the signature and which the date? One is 4 characters long and the other 3, any more translations on those? Any comments on the hamon? I think it looks nice but not sure what type it would be called. Thanks again for all the help. This is all the pictures I have for now.

 

Cris H.

[Brian]

Cris,

I think it was moved purely because it is military, but I still believe it is handmade and genuine. The star looks legit to me, but others will have to chime in.

Odd yasurime, but not the first time I have seen them cut more elaborately. Perhaps the sword was shortened after making it, and the old ana filled by the smith. A lot of possibilities, but so far I think it is still a good deal.

 

Brian

[Stephen]

http://www.montanairon.com/tsukamaki.html#cost

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Chris,

One side has 3 Kanji: Shigefusa Saku (made by Shigefusa). The other has 5: 2 I don't recognize followed by Ju Ichi Gatsu (11 month, November). I would expect Nen (year) before the Ju so maybe the 2nd Kanji is an abbreviated Nen Kanji. I'm sure someone will be able to read it completely.

Handle wrap cost is above; you'll also need menuki if they're missing ($30 to 50). David McDonald would be a good choice for the work. No idea how difficult it will be to find the kojiri (piece at bottom of saya) or what that will cost.

$1,200 is probably OK for the price, but you can try to talk him down; 1K would be better considering the cost to rewrap.

You mentioned the blade isn't razor sharp. This might be a red flag, something to question. I'm not much up on Gendai so maybe someone else can chime in here, but I'd expect real Nihonto to be sharp.

Grey

[chino556]

Thanks for the info Grey,

 

Anybody got something like this they wanna sell for 5 or 600 bucks??? Maybe with a nice combat cover too?? :D Seriously, so how do I "test" how sharp it is...try cutting some cloth or paper on the edge?? ii was planning to use the whole "it gonna have to be restored...and thats not cheap..." angle to try to get a better price. We'll see. But realistically I am looking at 3-400 dollars for restoration? No comments on hamon or hada?? I'm a newb...really cant tell?? Did we agree with Brian that this is actually gendaito and not showato? Sorry for all the questions and Thanks again for the help.

 

Cris H.

[John A Stuart]

壬午Mizunoe-uma 1942 11th month. Probably Shigefusa from Tokoshima. John

[cabowen]

I think you mean Tokushima.....I think so too....

 

The hada is very tight and difficult to see from the photos so there is nothing much to say about it. As far as the hamon is concerned, the habuchi is very tight (shimari) which is usually not seen as very attractive. Because of the star stamp, I think you can be fairly certain it is a traditionally made blade though as I said above, it is not one of the better star stamped blades I have seen....