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Will it be possible to restore this sword? UPDATE-PICS PG 4!


DaveM4P99

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The hada is not brought out spectacularly but, I think mokume/itame with masame above the shinogi. John

 

I think (hope) that has more to do with my rushed photography and lack of any good lights.

 

Any suggestions on how to best photograph the hada? The hamon?

 

So you are seeing a fine wood grain huh?

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Fair amateur polish, you have here the difference between a professional Japanese polish and an amateur western polish.

 

There is a tell tale in the polish. Now, taking into account the value of the blade compare to the price of a real Japanese polish + all the fees, this was a right decision to have it polish this way.

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Fair amateur polish, you have here the difference between a professional Japanese polish and an amateur western polish.

 

There is a tell tale in the polish. Now, taking into account the value of the blade compare to the price of a real Japanese polish + all the fees, this was a right decision to have it polish this way.

 

Thanks for the comment and opinion!

 

I do appreciate what a true Japanese polish can do (or at least I am learning to appreciate)...but honesly, I didn't have that much money to spend on this, and I did what I could afford.

 

I can now appreciate it even more, and I trust this polish will allow the blade to survive another 250 years, at least...and that was my goal.

 

Can I ask, Jean, what is the tell tale sign of the amateur polish? What could a better polish have brought out better? The hada, the hamon etc? This is a good learning experience for all I think.

 

Also Jean - what do you think the blade is worth? I am mostly interested in learning more about Tegarayama Ujishige (3rd generation? Worked in late 1700s??? Still not sure??), and how he was viewed as a smith.

 

And what makes HIM specifically not as "desirable" of a smith?

 

Thanks!

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Congrats, I think it came out well. You would need to research the smith to see how it fits in. I'm inclined towards a bit of nashiji, although the hada isn't prominent. Not konuka though.

It's a good example of why people shouldn't write off swords, and there are no such things as "project blades" for beginners to "practice polishing" on.... these can be saved and evenb pitting can often be removed. Do not write off blades unless an expert tells you to. :)

Enjoy, it's a vast improvement.

 

Brian

 

Thanks Brian! There are about half a dozen TINY little black dots that are the last of the pitting...not really noticeable unless photographed with a macro lens. They are all around .5mm or smaller.

 

How would I go about researching the smith more? Buy some books I suppose?

 

I have access to the New York Public Library...I believe they have Japanese Nihonto books, but many are only viewable with special permission. I assume they are very old and collectible books?

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David:

 

You deserve a lot of credit for the money and effort you have spent to conserve this nihonto and its history. I am aware that the cost is always a factor and David did a great job of restoring a rusty piece of steel. I imagine this was the only way for you to go about it and in a cost/benefit situation I figure you did well.

 

Some of the comments re: trained and untrained polishers may have to do as well with some of the compromises you have had to make and the polisher letting it happen. No toshigi wants any of us to ruin his work and the damage that could be done putting the freshly polised blade in an old saya is well known. The other point I no some may have been referring to is the making of the shirasaya on the finished blade. Usually if being made once the foundation polish is done the new habaki and shirasaya are constructed so they will be ready to hold the finished blade.

 

In any event you did what you could under the circumstances you had to work under so that is all that can be done. Did he mention any more frequent oiling for the first month or two:? Some want you to - i guess it can't hurt but I wouldn't use any uchiko on a newly polished blade.

 

You did mention having a wooden Tsuka made and a wooden saya but a shirasaya when constructed has both and they are made together, so $450 is pretty good.

 

There probably said 10 wrong things but hopefully if dangerous in suggestions someone will correct me

:phew:

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David:

 

You deserve a lot of credit for the money and effort you have spent to conserve this nihonto and its history. I am aware that the cost is always a factor and David did a great job of restoring a rusty piece of steel. I imagine this was the only way for you to go about it and in a cost/benefit situation I figure you did well.

 

Some of the comments re: trained and untrained polishers may have to do as well with some of the compromises you have had to make and the polisher letting it happen. No toshigi wants any of us to ruin his work and the damage that could be done putting the freshly polised blade in an old saya is well known. The other point I no some may have been referring to is the making of the shirasaya on the finished blade. Usually if being made once the foundation polish is done the new habaki and shirasaya are constructed so they will be ready to hold the finished blade.

 

In any event you did what you could under the circumstances you had to work under so that is all that can be done. Did he mention any more frequent oiling for the first month or two:? Some want you to - i guess it can't hurt but I wouldn't use any uchiko on a newly polished blade.

 

You did mention having a wooden Tsuka made and a wooden saya but a shirasaya when constructed has both and they are made together, so $450 is pretty good.

 

There probably said 10 wrong things but hopefully if dangerous in suggestions someone will correct me

:phew:

 

Thanks for the input!

 

Yes, he did recommend to oil the blade as soon as I unpacked it, and oil it fairly frequently for the next month.

 

First I used some very good quality gun oil to clean and preserve the newly polished metal...but I cleaned that off a day later and applied mineral oil. Clove oil will be the long term oiling method though.

 

Yes I should have gotten a shirasaya made after the foundation polish, but I did not think of that...However, the gentlemen who is building me a shirasaya and/or a new tsuka, Nihonto Antiques, is right near me in New York...so I may drive it to him to avoid any shipping damage.

 

I trust he will protect the blade well when crafting the shirasaya/tsuka.

 

Nihonto Antiques makes a good shirasaya (according to them), and costs around $650...steep price, but necessary.

 

But I plan on getting a shirasaya, and rebuild my shin gunto tsuka with the original fittings.

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Nashiji hada is mainly identified with early Yamashiro, while konuka hada is mainly identified with Hizento. This blade is most likely a komokume/itame mix that hasn't been brought out very well. Also, the shaping of the kissaki doesn't look so good to me. It looks like the polisher wasn't agressive enough in getting the ko-shinogi right during shitaji (rough pollish). Anyway, all in all it's certainly a big improvement, but hopefully you won't hate me for pointing out some things I see that could've been better, in my opinion. I know it's not easy to post something and hear it criticised, but understand, it's not directed at you. Also, critique of the restoration aside, it is still a very nice inheritance that I'm sure you can appreciate much more now. Thanks a lot for sharing the experience. It has been an interesting post.

 

Here's the best example I could come up with for nashiji hada. It's hard to understand from a picture because the chikei, which is a difining characteristic, is nearly impossible to photograph.

 

Here is an example of konuka hada

post-2413-14196818786989_thumb.gif

post-2413-14196818787922_thumb.jpg

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Ernst, please add your first name as signature to your posts.

 

The polisher has done a good job, but don't be surprised, a lot of good amateurs are able to do this. Nothing outstanding. To be a good amateur requires years of self training and a gift from the start. Few people have the required skills to become an amateur or professional polisher. The difference between both is that the amateur is mainly a self training polisher

 

Now the difference between good amateur polish and professional Japanese ones.

 

First, the Japanese polishers have access to stones no more available in Western countries. He is not self trained and has had a teacher who has shown him every stage of polishing and all the tricks ( that is tradition and kept secret). What ever the sword, a good Japanese polisher will show the jigane and the hamon details.

 

In a good Japanese polish, you will never see "hike". I have noticed that even with the best of our European polishers they are very/very often remaining..., there are some on your blade which can be seen on the 18th picture -kissaki - in the ray of light there are small horizontal scratches

 

 

Now this being said, I have been using them for years because the value of a Japanese restoration is often above the value of the blade. It is absolutely not a critic but a matter of fact and I would have done the same. I am very careful now to buy my blades with a Japanese polish from the start.

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Nashiji hada is mainly identified with early Yamashiro, while konuka hada is mainly identified with Hizento. This blade is most likely a komokume/itame mix that hasn't been brought out very well. Also, the shaping of the kissaki doesn't look so good to me. It looks like the polisher wasn't agressive enough in getting the ko-shinogi right during shitaji (rough pollish). Anyway, all in all it's certainly a big improvement, but hopefully you won't hate me for pointing out some things I see that could've been better, in my opinion. I know it's not easy to post something and hear it criticised, but understand, it's not directed at you. Also, critique of the restoration aside, it is still a very nice inheritance that I'm sure you can appreciate much more now. Thanks a lot for sharing the experience. It has been an interesting post.

 

Here's the best example I could come up with for nashiji hada. It's hard to understand from a picture because the chikei, which is a difining characteristic, is nearly impossible to photograph.[attachment=1]awa kuniyoshi TJ.GIF[/attachment]

 

Here is an example of konuka hada[attachment=0]shodai TADAYOSHI.jpg[/attachment]

 

Thanks for the observations! No offense taken at all.

 

So a fine mokume hada is what I have...not nashiji. Got it. Thanks for the pics as reference!

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Ernst, please add your first name as signature to your posts.

 

The polisher has done a good job, but don't be surprised, a lot of good amateurs are able to do this. Nothing outstanding. To be a good amateur requires years of self training and a gift from the start. Few people have the required skills to become an amateur or professional polisher. The difference between both is that the amateur is mainly a self training polisher

 

Now the difference between good amateur polish and professional Japanese ones.

 

First, the Japanese polishers have access to stones no more available in Western countries. He is not self trained and has had a teacher who has shown him every stage of polishing and all the tricks ( that is tradition and kept secret). What ever the sword, a good Japanese polisher will show the jigane and the hamon details.

 

In a good Japanese polish, you will never see "hike". I have noticed that even with the best of our European polishers they are very/very often remaining..., there are some on your blade which can be seen on the 18th picture -kissaki - in the ray of light there are small horizontal scratches

 

 

Now this being said, I have been using them for years because the value of a Japanese restoration is often above the value of the blade. It is absolutely not a critic but a matter of fact and I would have done the same. I am very careful now to buy my blades with a Japanese polish from the start.

 

Thanks again for the explanations Jean!

 

I guess in 1 or 2 places, you can see the "scratches" in very bright light...but even with a halogen flashlight and a magnifying glass, I can't see much at all.

 

I really want to figure out when the blade was made...early or late 1700s...and by which Ujishige...More research on my part needed!

 

And thanks all for the observations so far...keep them coming. All very interesting no matter what.

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Dave,

Please remember protocol to add your first name to posts. It may help some of us forgetful types if you also add at least initial of last name to posts.

There are many "Dave" in my family, including both first and second husband of my aunt. Stories can get confusing.

 

I too confess surprise at how well the polish turned out.

Like being a surgeon, it is a tough call to make. Your patient turned out very well.

 

I did not know you were in New York City.

Has no one directed you to the New York Metro Sword Club? The next meeting is Jan 22nd at the Times Square location.

I don't like the idea of a naked freshly polished blade wandering around the city... asking for trouble or damage. Yet club members will give you good insight into it.

To protect the blade surface for short periods of travel, you can cover it lengthwise in Syran Wrap or Cling Wrap. Be sure to clean afterwards.

 

If you are remotely near FiDi, then PM me and we can consider meeting up Sunday or Monday. We are staying a few blocks north of Wall Street.

Most of my books focus on fittings and koto Bizen, but I do have some other texts here.

 

Curran

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Curran - Sorry about that...I figured that since my username had my real name in it, that it didn't matter! Haha.

 

I do have an apartment in NYC, in the Murray Hill area (20s on 3rd avenue) but have a house upstate as well. But - I will be in NYC that entire week/weekend.

 

Anyway, YES I would love to come to the Jan 22nd NYC meeting! Can you give me the time and location??

 

I am keeping the blade VERY well protected, since I have no shirasaya. Should I bring it to the club meeting? Wrapped up and safe ofcourse.

 

I am a NYC gun owner, so I could wrap it in plastic wrap, and put it in one of my many gun cases for safe travel.

 

I would definitely be interested in your thoughts on my newly polished blade...fittings etc.

 

Look forward to meeting on Sunday if I can make it!

 

-Dave P.

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Dave,

 

I am much more of a fittings collector who has owned a few good nihonto over the years. There will be club members there that can give you much better advice than me. Izuka-san (Kunio) will probably be your first stop in the room.

 

Club info: http://www.ny-tokenkai.org/www.ny-token ... tings.html

Usually 12 to whenever.

 

January is usually the big meeting where we all go out to a big lunch-dinner.

Sadly, John Prough's wife has suddenly passed away Jan 5th. He is General Secretary and long time co-leader of the group. His wife was an internationally respected and much beloved Japanese naginata sensei. One of the world's best and a woman who put the Art in martial artist. We might be a large and gloomy bunch on Jan 22nd.

That said, you should come. They may or may not charge you a $5 visitor fee, but you will get a bucketload of information and someone may take a rubbing of your nakago to do further research. That is bittersweet, as it was Sachiko Prough who gave us a lecture on how to do oshigata only 2 months ago.

 

PM me if you need any more info.

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OK I see, and these HIKE are left because polisher did not see them, because he saw them but did not take the time to fix them or because for some reasons he could not fix them (ie not the right stone for it)?

 

Weird to spend many hours and days polishing a sword and at the end left tiny scratches. It is a non sense to me.

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Getting back to the issue of what constitutes a good polish, it all starts with a proper foundation. The lines and surfaces of the blade after polish should be crisp and uniform. Wobbly lines and, more often, surfaces that ripple, are hallmarks of a poor polish and unfortunately all too commonly seen in the work of the untrained.

 

It does not matter how well the blade is finished, if the foundation is poor, it is a poor polish.

 

Speaking of finishing, the blade should be free of hike, as mentioned, with a clear, naturally appearing ji and ha. Easy to understand when an example is in front of you but hard to explain with the limitations of language....Hadori, if present, should also be done in a natural way pleasing to the eye without awkward variation.

 

One way to see how good the foundation work has been done is to follow the reflection of a bare incandescent bulb down the length of the blade. If the work is good, the reflected shape of the bulb will change very little as it moves down the blade. Poor work will have the reflection distort out of round at regular intervals down the blade due to waves in the surface.

 

All that being said, it takes even more experience and skill to restore a heavily rusted blade than one that is simply in an old polish.

 

Given the financial realities present with restoring a blade that may not have the financial value to make a professional polish economically viable, it is hard to justify on simply economic terms, the proper course. Then again, how is one to know the true quality of a blade covered in rust when one makes that decision??? One could say that a window in that case would be a good indicator and a key piece of info from which to make the decision....Maybe, maybe not....In the end, as I have said, polishing is a gamble.....Since they aren't making any more 300 year old blades, might it not be prudent to err on the side of caution?

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Interesting info on the tiny scratches that can be left after polish. I'd like to see photo examples of a blade that doesn't have those horizontal scratches when seen under a bright flash (but not too bright of a flash that over-exposes the area).

 

Thanks for the comments all.

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This topic has served to remind me of just why I have not been active on this forum for several years.

 

 

Quick intro: I'm the guy that gave DaveMP49 a push in the direction of getting this particular blade looked at in the hopes that it might be worth saving, and I recommended

David Hofhine to him. A recommendation that I would gladly repeat.

 

 

I'll be completely blunt about this. I'm not here to spare any feelings. Why would I, when I have so little investment in this forum?

 

I see a number of people here who are, without a doubt, quite knowledgable about Japanese swords. Chris Bowen in particular.

 

That's fine...excellent, actually.

 

But I have seen a distinct and totally unwarranted bias against anyone, REGARDLESS OF SKILL LEVEL, who has acquired any kind of "non-traditional" education regarding

Japanese swords, particularly polishing activities.

 

I think there are people here who would honestly say that a third rate polish done by a second rate polisher, who spent all seven years training as an apprentice in Japan, is better

than an absolutely first rate polish done by a highly ranked and experienced American polisher who did NOT do a seven year Japanese apprentice but has continued to study under

high ranked Japanese polishers for over 20 years on a visiting basis. A polisher whose works have been ranked at shinsa as high as Juyo Token. As far as I know, that ranking is

the second highest possible ranking.

 

It's like some people believe that what school you went to is more important than what you have learned.

 

That's backwards. Absurd, really.

 

 

It seems to me that at least some of those who are dismissive of the efforts of an American polisher (or, more properly, one who didn't spend seven years apprenticing in Japan) are in

part trying to put down the competition, because they themselves are involved in the restoration of swords and stand to make (or lose) money depending on whom a sword owner

selects to do the polishing.

 

I don't question the knowledge of those involved. I know little compared to them. But I do question their ethics. A true gentleman respects the achievements of another craftsman,

NOT the school he went to.

 

 

And, given the non-professional, not entirely clear nature of the photos provided of the newly polished blade, I think that some of you are quick to judge, quick to find flaws, and have

an incredible ability to find flaws and deviations in a blade when the photographs frankly are not clear enough or composed in such a way that any such attribution has any merit whatsoever.

 

 

The value and merit of this forum would be greater if certain negative factors were removed from it. Those factors include negative opinions toward the work of others that are in competition

with people who are involved with this forum. And the negative opinion held by some against those who, for whatever reason, were unable or unwilling to spend years of their life (and much money) in a foreign country learning how to push a piece of impure iron over an abrasive rock. :freak:

 

 

I am an AMATEUR polisher myself. I'm happy to work on Paul Chen blades for practice, or gunto blades, or old blades that have fatal flaws and no value. I leave the potentially valuable

stuff strictly alone. I would not have polished DaveMP49's sword, suspecting it to be potentially of some value, and I was right. And I don't do it regularly. I don't have the time, as

the bills have to be paid and sword polishing work isn't going to make me any money. Nor can I afford to fly to Japan and become someone's apprentice. Maybe YOU might be able to afford

it, on daddy's money, but I sure can't. If I did any apprenticeship work, I'd HAVE to do it in America, regardless of any possible desire I might have to do it in Japan with a traditional apprenticeship if I COULD afford it.

 

My suggestion to some of you is to let the chip fall off your shoulder, and don't pick it up. Kill your elitist attitude. Get it into your minds that a sword well polished at an affordable price is better than one that wasn't polished because the cost of a polish was beyond affordable limits for the owner of that sword.

 

And, show respect for skills, not for the school the artisan went to. To be school-centric rather than skill-centric runs contrary to the very idea of learned craftsmanship.

 

There is not ONE way to learn a skill. It is the destination that matters, and not so much the path that was taken to get there.

 

Granted, there are hazards to the self-taught methodology. A mentor who can guide a student away from making an expensive mistake IS desirable, but is NOT always possible or

practical. Does that mean that a willing student, someone who WANTS to learn, should not learn, then? I say he should continue to learn anyway, by any means available. If he has

any roots of wisdom growing within him, he will not make many serious mistakes. The LAST stones he buys will be the binsui and arato stones.

 

 

I'm done with this now. Comment if you wish. But remember...I'm campaigning against biases and prejudices that do nothing to encourage people's interest in the world of Japanese sword appreciation. The community should be more welcoming and adopt more of the mindset of the mentor, rather than the angry schoolmaster who criticizes every missed question.

 

Chris

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I have seen the work at one time or another of most of the self-taught polishers in the US and Canada; some has been downright criminal, while some has been simply mediocre. None of what I have seen can compare to the quality of the work available in Japan by trained mainstream polishers.

 

I couldn't care less if someone sends a blade for restoration through me or any one of the dozens of other people who offer that service- what I do care about, as all who love Japanese swords should, is that swords are properly preserved and restored. If someone can not afford to give the sword the care it deserves, then maybe they should think about a hobby where they won't be damaging or destroying valuable cultural heritage because of a lack of funds. Collecting Japanese swords, or anything else of significant financial value, has never been a past time for the those without some depth to their pockets. I am sorry if that comes across as elitist but it is a simple economic fact.

 

Some things are simply not possible to pick up on one's own no matter the innate ability or desire of the student. Kantei is the basis of proper polishing;correct polishing requires good kantei skills. It can not be self taught in the US. I wouldn't go to a self-taught surgeon nor would I give a fine blade to a self taught polisher...What I find unethical is the damage and destruction done by those long on hubris and short on skill. If someone is really serious about learning to polish Japanese swords, they should go to Japan and apprentice under a proper teacher.

 

I understand not all swords are worth the expense of a proper polish and that there is a place for these people. The problem that often arises is that they end up working on things they shouldn't be and that is when bad things happen. In the words of that great sage, Josey Wales, "a man's got to know his limitations."

 

And I while I greatly admire the passion and enthusiasm shown by amateurs outside of Japan, I can not recommend their craftsmanship to date where good swords are concerned. I wish there were self taught polishers of equal skill in the US, I wish there was one on every corner. It would be far easier than sending blades to Japan. Sadly, I have yet to meet one whose work measures up to the standards I am accustom to...

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Some things are simply not possible to pick up on one's own no matter the innate ability or desire of the student

 

 

With ALL due respect to your skills and knowledge, that statement is absolutely and positively UNTRUE.

 

 

There is a concept of ORIGINAL KNOWLEDGE, which is the knowledge gained from being the first one to figure out how to do something.

 

Who taught Wilbur and Orville Wright how to fly their first plane? What was the name of their flight instructor?

 

There wasn't one.

 

It is entirely possible for an intelligent, research-oriented individual to learn the same things by experimentation and research, through independent means,

that he could have learned from the right instructors. It won't be a quick or easy process but it IS possible.

 

It has been only in the past few years that Japanese swordsmiths have learned to produce utsuri on their new blades, a skill that had been lost and was gone

from living memory. Knowing that utsuri was possible, these intelligent smiths focused their efforts and figured out how to do it WITHOUT instruction.

 

 

I realize that your primary motivation appears to be the preservation of Japanese swords and not seeing them damaged even by well-intentioned individuals, but the elitist, closed

world attitude embodied by you yourself does nothing to encourage the growth of interest in this collecting hobby. I think that a little self reflection on this is due on your part.

 

If your attitude were to be prevalent, then the end result would be that soon, there would be only a few sword collectors left in the world who would have ALL the good old Japanese

swords, and each of those collectors would bear your own personal stamp of approval. The hobby would then become dead, and of no relevance or interest to any of the general public.

 

I ask you, who appointed you the Lord God of Japanese Swords? Who delegated the divine authority to you to pass judgement on whom may own swords and whom is good enough to

be polishing them? Particularly when the evidence before you shows clearly that there are polishers OUTSIDE of the "Japanese Togishi Yakuza", to coin a phrase, who apparently ARE

quite adequately skilled and knowledgeable, to be working on important swords?

 

I restate, David Hofhine's work has been ranked as high as Juyo Token, which I believe isn't even POSSIBLE if it's not done on a blade that is in and of itself an excellent piece of work and

of considerable value. MANY Japanese polishers have never done a polish that ranked Juyo Token. Only Tokobetsu Juyo Token is a higher rating.

 

With that in mind, Chris, I would like you to specifically and honestly state your position and opinion on not only David Hofhine's work on this particular sword in question, but also on the

other top ranked US polishers who have achieved comparable results at shinsa.

 

I'm asking you to concisely state your opinion on the matter of the quality of work coming out of the best American polishers. Nothing more, nothing less, and nothing else, for the moment.

 

 

Chris

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Well, given enough monkeys, time, and typewriters, all the great works of literature will be reproduced I am told, so maybe you are on to something.....I just don't think there are enough swords and time to see it through...

 

You and anyone else that thinks you can learn to kantei and properly polish by experimentation are free to try, you just won't be getting my swords to practice on and perfect your technique, nor my support...If Orville and Wilbur crashed and burned, no harm done to anyone but themselves....Your solution, learn by doing, does no favors to the swords whittled down in the name of research.

 

People that think they can reinvent what has taken a 1000 years of years of history to perfect in the cozy convenience of their living rooms in their spare time are sadly deluded. The DIY spirit does run deep in the US...

 

I find nothing elitist, as I understand the word, in simply asking that art be restored by those with the skills necessary to accomplish such, rather than actually doing harm. Why would anyone who wishes to preserve Japanese sword recommend anything else? Is recommending that art be preserved rather than damaged elitist?

 

I would think that my attitude would be welcome among all who appreciate art and wish to see it survive to be appreciated my future generations. It may not be popular with those self taught that think they can polish swords properly but maybe the more of them that are scared off the better...

 

I don't see where I said anything about approving who can collect Japanese swords....I suppose though that if no one spoke out against the destruction, no matter how well intended, of swords by amateur polishers, and we went merrily along following your lead at some point in the future there would be no swords left to collect....

 

By the way, polishes and polishers are not ranked Juyo Token, swords are....Can you provide any evidence that any swords polished by any amateurs in the US have been awarded Juyo Token status?

 

You state:

 

"I'm asking you to concisely state your opinion on the matter of the quality of work coming out of the best American polishers. Nothing more, nothing less, and nothing else, for the moment."

 

I thought I had already made that clear.....Again: nothing done by any of the self taught polishers I have seen in the US is up to the standards of what I am accustom to seeing from trained polishers in Japan. That is putting it as nicely and concisely as I can.....

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With all due respect, a conversation is being had with an innocent bystander.... that being the polisher of the blade.

With no knowledge or experience of the man, i believe he has done a remarkable job here. I do not see him having a fair go 'back' to all this criticism. Lets us not assume and condemn inappropriately.

Observing this forum topic with more than great interest, i can see both sides of view in this matter, however, i tend to lean with cmjohnson's view.

What tipped me over the barbed wire fence is that looking further, i see that Mr Bowen is an 'associate' and dare i say 'friend' of the polisher in question?? (as his picture is on the polishers web page).

Perhaps your 'endorsement' by being on this page is inappropriate and not warranted, then you should retract such publicity and sponsorship in view of this topic. I would suspect you know what i'm on about here.

I'm not speaking for Mr Hofnine here, but if you were MY 'friend', i'd have you sacked.....

In my life i've learnt one thing, without respect, you have very little.

I DO believe that with your affiliation to the polisher, you should have only stated your opinion in regards to Japanese polish/ vs / Euro Western polish and left it at THAT. One, perhaps two posts.... no more.

In my eyes, it only serves to bring you undone with your vested business interests.... and i loose trust in your opinion.

That being said, i personally find this message board incredibly informative and the most definitive collective knowledge base available, unfortunately, people being people, some extremely knowledgable members DO appear arrogant and 'elitist' which i feel is not in the spirit of this message board and detracts from input... especially from newbies.

 

Anyway, i've got my goat up.... think i've said too much.

As i don't know any of you, nothing is personal (unlike some posts i've read) and i've adde my 'newbie 2c worth

 

Ernst <- My name, Country is Australia. (sorry for before Jean)

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