Big Flaw

[Wickstrom]

Perhaps this is a silly question, but would a flaw like this ruin the value of any blade or just greatly lower it depending on the period and maker?

[paulb]

I am sure there will be a lot of differing opinions on this but from my perspective I would say the following:

although I would not regard the flaw as fatal it is unattractive and would reduce the swords value to some extent.

The amount of reduction would vary a lot depending on the age, rarity and what the rest looked like. If this were a Kamakura blade by a highly rated smith I would be happier to live with it. If it was a shinto piece or later it is harder to accept.

In a Koto piece this may be the result of polishing over many years, with a shinto blade, which should have had far fewer polishes, it is indicative of poor workmanship.

Of course the reality is never this black or white but at least it offers a starting point

regards

Paul

[sanjuro]

Andrew.

 

More detail about the blade please. What period?

In answer to your question,and this is a superficial answer based on what little information you have given thus far. This kind of flaw would render a sword dangerous to use. Use however is not what defines a sword in this day and age, and the sword may still be collectable from a number of other viewpoints.

Usually, such a flaw would seriously lower the value of the blade. Is potential value a criteria in your view? There are other considerations such as maker, rarity, the otherwise overall condition of the blade to take into consideration.

[Wickstrom]

This blade is supposedly a mumei Bizen Kamakura although I'm a bit skeptical about it. Look at the nakago, the blade hardly curves at all compared to others from this period. Although the Hamon looks Bizen i do have my doubts about this blade..

[Mark]

if it were a Rai blade, or Hosho school etc it may be somewhat common....... but even so would reduce the value. As you say it may be Bizen then the only reason to forgive it is if it were definatly a Kamakura blade and priced with the flaw considered

[Mark]

has the temper been treated with acid? it has a strange look as it nears the hamachi, it is not a natural change in the temper, must be due to something the polisher did, but looks strange

[Wickstrom]

As far as value of the blade, i am more concerned about paying to much for it then looking at it as an investment.

 

 

has the temper been treated with acid? it has a strange look as it nears the hamachi, it is not a natural change in the temper, must be due to something the polisher did, but looks strange

 

The man selling this piece bought it at an estate auction and has an email from the polisher, possibly one of those old soldiers brought back from ww2 polished before the soldier died for an estimate on the value? its only in about 40% polish as of right now.

 

Itame-hada combined with mokume and sporadic nagare-hada.

 

Hamon is a merging of three patterns first Choji and then halfway up at the monouchi Gunome (with

 

tobiyaki) starts and then all becomes Ko-Suguba fot the last 4 inches of the blade to the tip on one side.

 

The other side is Midare (with points) becoming Ko-gunome then again suguba for the last 8 inches

 

the other side.

 

Boshi appears to be in ko-maru but it looks like yaki-tsume.

 

High shinogi.

 

Full hiraniku.

 

I am not sure if the hamon is Nie or Nioi deki but it looks to have some chikae and other activities.

[sanjuro]

I agree about the hamon close to the ha machi, but if you look closely the hamon continues beyond the apparent abrupt end in the hamon there. Perhaps someone has touched up the hamon with fingerstones. The overall appearance of what we can see in the pic gives the impression that the polish was not given to the entire blade but only to the hamon itself. I am not sure however. Is there perhaps a pic of the overall sugata? and pics of the hada if it is visible?

[Wickstrom]

Last picture i have of the blade.

[DirkO]

Here's a link to the auction :

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150481989233&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

[Jacques D.]

Hi,

 

Full hiraniku.

 

 

[Brian]

Although hira means flat....hiraniku doesn't mean flat niku Jacques.

Hiraniku: 平肉 Portion of the blade surface between the shinogi suji and the hamon. "Hira" means flat, but if the hiraniku is flat, instead of being bulged or rounded, it is referred to as "no hiraniku."

Hiraniku Oi: 平肉多い Hiraniku is curved or full

Hiraniku sukunai: 平肉少ない The hiraniku is flat

[Jacques D.]

Hi,

 

Although hira means flat....hiraniku doesn't mean flat niku Jacques.

Hiraniku: 平肉 Portion of the blade surface between the shinogi suji and the hamon. "Hira" means flat, but if the hiraniku is flat, instead of being bulged or rounded, it is referred to as "no hiraniku."

Hiraniku Oi: 平肉多い Hiraniku is curved or full

Hiraniku sukunai: 平肉少ない The hiraniku is flat

 

 

I know that well Brian, i was refering to the tiredness of that blade which, obviously, has lost a great amount of its niku.

[Brian]

Possible..but I would be hesitant personally to make that call from the pics presented.

 

Brian

[Mark]

the pictures in the eBay auction show additional ware'. The shinogi line appears to be rouned off so maybe it was "cleaned" or polished by an amatuer. the seller seems to be up front showing the poor condition.

[GregD]

Looks like a polisher did some"test areas"---kinda like putting in a window,determined the blade was just too flawed and felt it wasnt worth the effort.I think retempered,washed out hada,you can see it is there but blends too much when nagui was used,a partial attempt at "hadori",wont cover the ware which i believe were created when retempered.

Greg

[Surfson]

It looks to me like the hamon runs off the blade at the kissaki and there is no boshi.

[Eric H]

This crap has been sold for US $ 610.--, 28 bids ...the question may be raised how educational is our board?...or more specifically, do people learn effectively?

 

In several threads there has been a serious warning to buy from ebay by uninformed people. The seller, using a lot of technical terms in the boastfully description... he doesn't obviously not understand their meaning... merely wishful thinking... the pictures however unmask such maneuvers.

 

The „happy“ new owner...hopefully not a member... has the choice now, will it be polished...or left alone as an „artefact“ or perhaps as a prime example for flaws.

 

Eric

[Brian]

Eric,

Considering we only reach probably a small fraction of the eBay crowd, I would like to think that our members were not among the bidders. I hope.

 

Brian