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Ken-Hawaii

New Nihonto

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I just acquired what is by far the best blade for my Nihonto collection. It's massive - nearly 1 kg bare - & gorgeous.

 

I haven't ID'd the smith or even the school for sure, although the kantei at my Japanese Sword Society meeting was pretty raucous :D, so I'd appreciate comments. Here are some photos:

 

9h3ue0.jpg

20izbr6.jpg

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Very pretty.

I would say not very old. Shinshinto at the oldest.

I would think gendi :dunno:

I once had a sword that could have been made by the same guy. It had a fake shinkai signiture on it. It looked just like this.

Is this sword signed?

It is very pretty! Nice get.

Mark G

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Oops! Forgot to mention it's mumei. And our three former shinsa couldn't agree on school or smith, but did concur it's Shin-shinto.

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I can't see any hada from the pictures, looks like a newly made sword, nakago seems new with artificial aging after the polish was done. Hard to say exactly though without holding it in hand, something seems "off" about it, might give a different impression in person so please don't be offended.

 

Edit ...Why age the nakago after the polish - weird, shinshinto - I don't buy it based on those pics sorry. But if Shinsa team members looked and said it is shinshinto then they should know what they are talking about - surprising they would say that with a nakagao looking like that.

 

Louis

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They spent a lot of time looking at the nakago, Louis. The sujikai yasurime can be easily seen with the blade in front of you, but don't come through well in a low-resolution photo.

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Louie i get a New feeling as well, i even went out on a limb as to say it may have been made my one of these guys.

 

http://www.swordpolish.net/html/gallery.html

 

I didn't want to say it:) But I should say again that it is hard to say for sure without being held in the hand. And again, I don't want to insult your sword, I am just curious about it.

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The similarities with this contemporary maker are striking.

 

http://www.moderntosho.com/gallery2/mai ... itemId=103

 

 

Sorry to be blunt Ken, but that patina is not only new but very poorly executed as well. My feeling is that this is a recently made piece that has perhaps had a mei removed. That in itself is not bad if the mei was dubious, but the patina really needs to be fixed if it is indeed a Shinshinto work.

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Louie i get a New feeling as well, i even went out on a limb as to say it may have been made my one of these guys.

 

http://www.swordpolish.net/html/gallery.html

 

Hi Stephen.

 

I know both you and Louis weren't suggesting anything bad about the smiths, but being a couple of them my friends it would be good to point out that if any tricky business has been made with this blade likely it has been made without participation nor knowledge by the smith possible maker of the blade.

 

And yes, it looks like Ted suggest. Original modern Mei removed and poor patination.

I hope to be wrong for everybody's sake.

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I know both you and Louis weren't suggesting anything bad about the smiths

 

none what so ever, I hold what they can do with steel in high regard, doing some art stuff long time ago in a land far away ...well same state just ....never mind, metal I have a good idea how hard it is.

also I don't think any under the table shenanigans was going on. Ted found what I've been looking for for most of the day, so good to have the memory cells. BTW Ken none of this was meant to put down your new sword but to just get to the point of whom made it.

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Louie i get a New feeling as well, i even went out on a limb as to say it may have been made my one of these guys.

 

http://www.swordpolish.net/html/gallery.html

 

Hi Stephen.

 

I know both you and Louis weren't suggesting anything bad about the smiths, but being a couple of them my friends it would be good to point out that if any tricky business has been made with this blade likely it has been made without participation nor knowledge by the smith possible maker of the blade.

 

And yes, it looks like Ted suggest. Original modern Mei removed and poor patination.

I hope to be wrong for everybody's sake.

 

Exactly, we didn't make reference to the workmanship, the nakago is dubious and raises questions, I think Ted's find is very enlightening.

 

Louis

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Looks exactly like a shinsakuto I once owned by a Kyushu smith who signs Akamatsu Taro Kanetsugu. His family name is Kimura....I believe his student signs Kanehiro and works in an identical style...

 

I would bet the farm this is a shinsakuto....

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I would bet the farm this is a shinsakuto....

 

That was my thought as well. Though why someone should try and patinate the nakago is beyond me. Trying to pass it off as shinshinto in the hope of extra wedgie? Or some nitwit who just thought that the nakago would look nicer patinated? I've run across folks doing unlikelier things than the second idea. :-(

 

Kevin

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The similarities with this contemporary maker are striking.

 

http://www.moderntosho.com/gallery2/mai ... itemId=103

 

 

Sorry to be blunt Ken, but that patina is not only new but very poorly executed as well. My feeling is that this is a recently made piece that has perhaps had a mei removed. That in itself is not bad if the mei was dubious, but the patina really needs to be fixed if it is indeed a Shinshinto work.

Any idea what type of steel was used in the making of this blade?

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Most likely tamahagane, though the one I had by kanetsugu was inscribed that is was made with steel he made using satetsu from some local river...

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To speak it out loud: Rust and patina of the nakago are overlapping the freshly polished area of this blade. Old swords polished anew don't look like this. Meaning: This is probably a brand new sword not much older than its polish, but it was made to look much older. - I wonder what you have been told when buying.

 

reinhard

post-1086-1419678243733_thumb.jpg

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Dear Ken,

 

you already did ask me on this sword-do you remember?

I just told you to be cautious with this one and first had to verify yourself on those plenty pictures in the books i did recomment you to purchase first-Before you finally buy this blade.

I had a certain reason why telling you this and also writing you that i´ve seen and studied the original smith-group or sub-school(who may bee seen in this sword perhaps)

It does not make much sense in asking first-later getting an answer but to not verifying for oneself-I do know it is hard to keep a certain distance to all those different occuring interpretations but at least for such purpose books are published by very professional experts in their´s each propper field.

I really hope you did not pay too much......

Sorry for those hard words but i know others would tell you the same.

 

Christian

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Though why someone should try and patinate the nakago is beyond me. Trying to pass it off as shinshinto in the hope of extra wedgie? Or some nitwit who just thought that the nakago would look nicer patinated? I've run across folks doing unlikelier things than the second idea. :-(

 

The greater increase of value would be in the case of a blade made by an american (chinese?) smith refurbished to resemble a Nihonto.

 

Then the case of a surplus unsigned blade from a production of two, having the customer choosed the other one and left "the second choice" as an off-the-shelf item (but I wonder if the increase in value from a Shinsakuto to an unsigned Shinshinto would deserve the risk).

 

Last the frightening case of a stolen blade. As you can't change blade's details let's try to change the smith and Jidai.

 

All hypotesys made to show hypotetical cases that might occur in similar conditions and that definitively aren't meant to put down the blade or as accusation to anybody's action in the case of the blade of this topic.

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... The greater increase of value would be in the case of a blade made by an american (chinese?) smith refurbished to resemble a Nihonto ...

 

Even if it is the work of a American smith, (I have not seen any "production" swords from China that look this good!) I would think that it's value has been lowered if the mei has been removed. I think it looks similar to some of Rick Barrett's katana and his typically bring $3,000 to $5,000. If it is from DiCristofano, well... his work is harder to find and higher priced. The photos of the other Nihonto also look very similar.

 

The patina on the nakago of very troubling. From the photos I must agree with those that say it is artificial. I cannot say that there was/is any attempt to deceive. I have seen people rust a nakago on a new blade to get the "proper look" just for their own pleasure.

 

Ether way, I believe that having removed the mei and aging the nakago has lowered the value of a fine katana.

 

Dave P

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Without seeing the sword in hand it is difficult to say for certainty that the mei has been removed. With the limits placed on production in Japan, smiths have been known to sell unsigned works under the table. Rare, but it has happened.

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What an amazing temper-line this blade has. Can't be to too old judging by the rust over the file marks but that's just my 2 cents. Still a lovely blade, Congratulations :clap:

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If this is an Akamatsu Taro shinsakuto, their school is famous for their choji hamon and Kiyomaro copies. Gifted set of smiths they are, and they're headed for big things in the future.

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Im a complete novice at nihonto, and my only expierience other than books and online reading is a single shinto era o-tanto ive held.

 

Saying that, even to me that nakago looks definately off and nothing like ive seen before on a nihonto piece.

 

Saying that, depending on the price this could still be an excellant buy. A work of this quality looks like something from one of the top american smiths. I understand they normally clay temper a mono-steel blade and rarely use tamahagane, which would account for the lack of any visible hada.

 

That hamon is beutifull and its a wonderfull looking sword....if it wasnt for the very dodgy nakago id be drooling over the pics of that hamon right now.

 

Ken i see you havent responded to this thread in a while and i hope you havent taken offence at some of the replys, i think many here are very eager to get to the bottom of this and help you as much as possible. Any pics of any hada would go a long way, plus the full description that the seller gave you would also help.

 

Personally, if you paid more than $2000-3000 for this id take it straight to a proffesional for confirmation, and if it appears to be what it seems then id go back to the seller for an explanation.

 

Adam H

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