So what happened to all the Kashira? (Other options?) RE: Fuchi Kashira Orphanage.

[GreyVR]

I noted in the sale/trade forums this topic. 

"The Fuchi Kashira Orphanage." I'm linking to it below, but for the sake of the readers, I'll start with my own thoughts. 

First, my read of the market, that topic, and just generally going though sale items all over the internet and in person, is that there are significantly more Fuchi without Kashira then there are Kashira without fuchi. 
I rather imagine that the Kashiras are more subject to destruction than Fuchi, as Kashira were 'out on the end' and subject to being hit. A sword that falls off a shelf (stand and all) in an Earthquake is likely to land on the Kashia. If a drunken fellow wearing his sword should fall on his face, Kashira damage... all sorts of errors might lead to a Kashira taking a hit while a Fuchi would be protected being up against the tsuba. 

But, I also consider that the Kashira... might not have matched to start with, and that's part of what I'd like to ask about. Do we see many old Tsuka (be they in a koshirae or orhpaned themselves) with a very elegant fuchi... and a more generic 'pommel?' (From this point on I'm going to use the phrase 'end cap' in case some of these aren't considered kashira.) 

Take this matched set of two fuchi, which I'm honestly tempted by if one of you doesn't beat me to it, which feature Sakura trees in the moonlight. (For sale at Toshin, a set for paired swords. )  https://shop.nihontou.jp/products/detail/30227


But, if I bought them to someday assemble into something, what would I pair them with? I think they might look a bit odd with the somewhat generic endcaps like 

(I'm using pommel here because I'm unsure if I'm still suppose to use the word Kashira for something like this end cap as we might see on a handachi. 

And, additionally, there appears to be a significant lack of kashira like this on the market. They do exist, but they are fairly uncommon. I would, as a newbie, think that we should see the market overloaded with reproductions and historical examples of endcaps such as these, because of how common they were in the olden times. Instead we mostly see very small, very ornate caps both in the antique and reproduction market. 



By the way, we sometimes see endcaps like that where the hole for the cord is part of the cap itself. Is that something we only see on later military swords, or are there examples where that is present on older swords? Edo or before? 
(This is a cheap reproduction one, but it illustrates the idea of the 'hole' being a part of the cap.) 



There's also the end caps that have a large space open, which I rather presume is for the attachment of a lanyard, and (if I understand correctly) is attached to the higo school which emphasizes simplicity... (but that might be an error on my part.) which would also suggest that it isn't really right to match it to a complicated and ornate fuchi because they emphasize different things artistically. So part of me is wondering if perhaps all these wonderful fuchi DID originally go with such end caps? And perhaps this isn't Higo.... Tell me if I'm making mistakes.)


Now, do we still use the term Kashira for those more martial styles of endcap? Is there a specific sub-term for those styles? 

(Reproduction market)

As such, I'd like to ask the forum about what might have happened ot them, or if (somewhat generic) fittings mi

So, these 'large caps" do appear on older swords, are often in old paintings, museums, and movies... but there's a lack of them (from my perspective, if I'm wrong tell me) on the market both for reproduction and antique fittings. When gunto swords were being designed, they went with end caps like these because of their martial history. 

Most of the market appears to be dominated by these sets which consist of a collar and a flat, somewhat squared off cap. Less common but still moderately common is the same but domed. (the first is an antique and the second is reproduction.) 

, 


Now, I don't want to sound like I'm saying anything against Edo period ornate Kashira! I like them, but I also like all the other styles I don't see very often. I'd like to see more of them, both as antiques and on the reproduction market because they appear to be very significant and important. 
I'd like to know if perhaps all these Fuchi without Kashira originally had something other then a flat or domed set like those immediately above?  

Now, there IS a market for modern tachi/handachi fittings, but it appears to be almost underground. I had to do a lot of digging before I found a shop that produces them. 
https://nosyudo.jp/kt_4_nml/
But I'd really expect almost a third of Iaito to be handachi! And obviously that is not the case. 

[Matsunoki]

Just a quick comment….remember during Edo, a great many swords were mounted with a “normal” fuchi paired with a highly polished black horn kashira. I think this was actually a requirement for formal wear in formal circumstances…..but others have far greater knowledge than me. I think many daisho were mounted this way. 
This could account for the perceived surplus of lonesome fuchi. 
Hopefully others will amplify. 

[Geraint]

Dear George.

 

Here are a couple of links to look through.  The first is all good but page 12 specifically addresses the plain black kashira part of your question.  The second has a rather fine handachi which relates to your question about the hole located in the kabuto gane which is the name for the cap on handachi koshirae.

 https://to-ken.uk/onewebmedia/Ashmolean Presentation - Formal Koshirae vF.pdf

https://to-ken.uk/resources/koshirae/

 

Handachi koshirae are to my mind much less common than your estimate of one third of swords and vary from the downright workman like to the highly sophisticated.

 

Hope some of that helps.

 

All the best.

[GreyVR]

Just now, Geraint said:

The first is all good but page 12 specifically addresses the plain black kashira part of your question.  

Very cool! Thank you very much! 

I don't think I've ever seen one of these horn kashira, or if I did I didn't recognize it as horn, but imagined it was black copper or iron. 
Do you think this is such? I note that the pdf you linked has the following text. "The kashira had to be of horn and the end of the black hilt wrapping had to be knotted atop of it." On top mgiht be a 'relative' thing, since we could say that the photo here it's not exactly 'on top' but maybe it's close enough? (or the translation makes it sound more specific then it should be?) 


 

Quote

Handachi koshirae are to my mind much less common than your estimate of one third of swords and vary from the downright workman like to the highly sophisticated.

I agree that's the case on the market now, but it is my understanding from some of the oldest photos, artwork from before photos, and trips to museums that at one time Handachi would have been the 'default' from before the Edo period and moderately common though edo for lower ranking samurai. And while Ronin and poor samurai might not have had the most enviable lives, they are the subject of a great many romantic films and stories. The "Wandering samurai" in so many tales and old films usually would have had a handachi, ....and so the handachi becomes romantic. The reason for so many sword to be in handachi mounts is that handachi mounts are extremely practical. You see identical mounts (scabbard wise) on European cavalry swords because they so effectively protect the scabbard. I could go on for three pages on scabbards but the short is that metal scabbards are very bad, wooden scabbards are very good but very fragile, and so the best sword scabbard is wood with metal reinforcements. Here is Matt Easton holding a Austrian cavalry Pallasch. (A broadsword mounted like a saber.) 



And here's a sword on yahoo auctions, you see where the scabbard has the cage reinforcements. 

Metal scabbards are stronger still but dull the blade constantly, making it cut badly when you need it. (This was a topic of constant debate in late period Europe, and some of the metal scabbards had wood liners, but most didn't, and the end solution was to quit using swords... but many sabers are blunt as heck because of the metal scabbards that were loved by the paper pushers because they lasted, and hated by everyone else because they ruined the sword's edge. I'm leaving a massive volume of data out.) 

You always see these scabbard reinforcements on tachi, and a handachi or half-tachi is a tachi for a man on foot with it shoved through the obi, so such a sword has the same reinforcements, lacking primarily the horseman's rings near the top to wear the sword edge down on a horse. A serious sword for a serious fighting man who may not have extra koshirae or scabbards and needs his gear to be ready for whatever comes. 

Very romantic, very serious... very underrepresented on the market today. And Iaito being 'modern made' swords, I'd expect to see a lot of them in handachi mounts purely on romance alone! 

[Geraint]

For horn kashira and formal daisho mount see the bottom of this page.

http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/daishokoshirae.html

 

All the best.

 

[Robert S]

One thing that we sometimes forget is that iron, copper and other metals were much more uncommon a few hundred years ago than now.  Take the example from Sei Shonagon's Pillow Book (late 10th/early 11th century) where cupboards with hinged doors were much more "high class" than cupboards with sliding doors... because hinges required both metal craftsmanship and metal.  That becomes relevant when we think of koshirae from the Muromachi/Early Edo or before.  I suspect that if they were of ordinary craftsmanship, and had gone our of style, they were often recycled.  Hence the relative lack of older koshirae.

[Tim Evans]

You might like to invest in a book titled Uchigatana Koshirae which is a Tokyo National Museum exhibition catalog. illustrated are relatively undisturbed, documented koshirae that are preserved in shrines, temples, museums, and private collections, many were the property of famous Buke. Timeframe is Muromachi to early Edo.

 

Here is an ad on Grey Doffin's site, he may be able to find you one. https://japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com/store/book/fittings-books/b734-uchigatana-koshirae-with-translation-by-tokyo-national-museum-2/

 

Or, maybe post a want ad on NMB. 

 

Roundabout to the point. The majority of these uchigata tsuka had horn kashira and a metal fuchi. As you observed, early metal pommels were frequently of the kabuto-gane form that comes from tachi koshirae. The flat, artisticaly carved kashira are more prevelent from the early-mid Edo period onward. There are some exceptions to matchy-matchy fuchi-gashira, deliberately mis-matched sets are sometimes seen in Edo period Higo koshirae and Owari koshirae as a design choice. That said, your suspicion about kashira falling off because the wrap broke, or discarded because of damage is probably correct. 

Edited 18 hours ago by Tim Evans

[GreyVR]

2 hours ago, Tim Evans said:

You might like to invest in a book titled Uchigatana Koshirae which is a Tokyo National Museum exhibition catalog. illustrated are relatively undisturbed, documented koshirae that are preserved in shrines, temples, museums, and private collections, many were the property of famous Buke. Timeframe is Muromachi to early Edo.

 

Here is an ad on Grey Doffin's site, he may be able to find you one. https://japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.com/store/book/fittings-books/b734-uchigatana-koshirae-with-translation-by-tokyo-national-museum-2/

 

Oh nice! I bought Markus Sesko's book on Koshirae, and immediately after found out he sells a more extensive e-book version and wrote to him to buy one, but I never heard back. It's possible the mail was eaten by the internet. Sadly I find it somewhat difficult to focus on the page these days.... (this is I suspect partly the result of a many things, and a great pain for once I never went anywhere without a book... I've had to turn to audiobooks to get my book time in these days.) 

I'll write to Mr Doffin, but in the meanwhile does anyone have anything like an ISBN number for this volume? I might be able to find it on a used book site. 

 

5 hours ago, Robert S said:

often recycled.

Very true, and very sad. Almost no Greek statues (in bronze) survive for this reason. Some of the ones that do were lost at sea. 


---

BTW, who was confused about my reply above talking about scabbard reinforcements and the romance of older styles? Only *react* is a confused face.... seems straight forward enough to me... Did I fumble a sentence? 

[Matsunoki]

5 hours ago, GreyVR said:

BTW, who was confused about my reply

It was me.

Your original topic was an interesting one…..perceived shortage of kashira….possible reasons…..different types of kashira (or Kabuto gane) and their place in history etc but you lost me when you started talking about and imaging non Japanese scabbards, wood vs metal scabbards etc…..which were irrelevant to the topic (imo) , but that’s just me, no offence intended.

Also worth remembering that there are very few pre Edo koshirae or even components thereof kicking around on the market compared to the more intricate Edo developments. You are going back over 400 years with massive changes in fashion in the meantime so no surprise that a lot has been lost to time in Japan  for a variety of reasons.

[Bugyotsuji]

I'll admit that I was confused by your original post and reply too, as so much ground was covered historically and geographically that it was not easy for me to formulate any kind of consistent reply. At the propect of all or nothing, I kind of gave up.

 

By the same token, this was a subject that I had not really thought about. Some self-defense requires use of the pommel, and it was also pushed with the left (armo(u)red) hand on occasion. It makes sense that the kashira pommel in particular would have taken repeated knocks when either worn, in action or in transit, and anything truly artistic could have been spoiled or ruined. Horn and iron would show less damage at first glance than soft, delicate (precious) metals, and scratched or chipped horn could be rounded off and buffed out.