Sa Yoshisada versus Den Iwato Ichimonji

[Elias6677]

Hello everyone,

I’m currently in discussions with the dealer at AOI Japan and trying to make a difficult decision between two swords:

• Sa Yoshisada (Juyo Token) – around 5,000,000 Yen
• Den Iwato Ichimonji (Juyo Token) – around 5,800,000 Yen

As a beginner in the world of Nihonto, I’m trying not to decide based only on appearance, but also on history, reputation of the school, rarity, and long-term appreciation.

Which blade would you personally recommend — and why? Are there important aspects that beginners often overlook when choosing between pieces like these?

I would really appreciate your honest opinions and recommendations. Thank you very much for your help.

[Rivkin]

Its absolutely impossible to tell without seeing them. Iwato kantei means either it has suguha sections or it is very late yet Ichimonji rather than Kozori.

 

[eternal_newbie]

Here are the two blades; interestingly, both from the same Juyo session (65).

 

https://www.aoijapan.com/katana：mumeiunsigned-den-iwato-ichimonji-65th-juyo-token/

https://www.aoijapan.com/katanamumeiunsigned-sa-yoshisada-左吉貞-65th-nbthk-juyo-token/

 

It seems your decision may have been made for you already; the Yoshisada is now on hold. I will say that a significant chunk of the cost of each sword is due to the koshirae; the Yoshisada has an ornate court-style tachi koshirae with nashiji maki-e on the saya, and the Iwato Ichimonji has a very interesting hirumaki (resembling the body of a leech) tachi koshirae which is quite rarely seen.

[Lewis B]

I'm assuming Elias has put a hold on both swords and is now trying to decide which to buy. 

 

With all due respect, if you are asking these questions you are not ready to make such a purchase, especially a Juyo level sword sight unseen.

 

 

I was where you are a few years ago. The excellent advice I received back then was to learn as much as I can about Nihonto, invest in good reference books, see high quality swords in museums or sword meet-ups eg NBTHK-EB (since you're Germany-based), the annual Japan Art Show in Utrecht etc. You need time to educate your eye and sense of appreciation. This invaluable time spent researching will help you to define what interests you most. There are so many blades available from all eras, traditions, schools, different blade shapes. With that knowledge you can begin to make a decision thats right for you and not someone else. Thinking about financial appreciation with regards Nihonto, Tosogu etc is wrong. These are not investment vehicles or a way to diversify your investment portfolio. Chances are you will lose money when you sell especially after you add 19% VAT and import duties to those prices. The blue chip investment pieces are healthy, signed, ubu blades by important makers. 

 

Personally I would take a step back. Spend 6-12 months researching nihonto then visit Japan if possible, or attend a show like the JAS in Utrecht to find a blade that speaks to you based on some criteria you have established for yourself. Photos are not a good way to determine whether a particular blade is right for you. And I certainly wouldn't put much weight behind a dealers marketing fluff.

 

At the end of the day you have to make the decision, but that right decision for you will be very different to that made by someone else.

Edited 12 hours ago by Lewis B

[Lewis B]

It's worth paying attention to the Tanobe sayagaki. His opinion is highly valued when it comes to evaluation and often more educational than the Setsumei. Interpretation though is an art unto itself and much reading between the lines is needed, which only comes with experience. 

Edited 11 hours ago by Lewis B

[YourBabyBjornBorg]

(Working on the sayagaki)

 

Edits: wait, there is already a translation by Tsuruta-san. Wish I had seen this before started translating this sayagaki orz

 

Sayagaki by Mr. Tanobe:
Bizen no Kuni Iwato Ichimonji, greatly suriage and unsigned.
The jigane is an excellent tightly forged itame-hada accompanied by faint utsuri.
The hamon is composed of restrained ko-choji mixed with ko-gunome, with active ashi, nioi-based with fine ko-nie and a bright appearance.
The boshi turns back in a rounded manner, and the nioiguchi is excellently controlled.
This is an outstanding work attributed to the Ichimonji school.
Among this group, Yoshiie and Yoshiuji are representative smiths, with dated works known from the Gentoku and Genkyo eras.
Blade length: 2 shaku 3 sun 3 bu.
Written and appraised by Tanzan in late January, Reiwa 5 (2023).

 

鞘書：田野辺先生
備前国岩戸一文字、大磨上無銘也。
淡き映を伴う板目の詰む精良なる肌合に、
出入を抑えたる小丁子に小互の目交じり、
刃文を焼き足良く入り匂勝ち小沸つき明るく、
直ぐに丸く返る帽子結び匂口の塩相宜敷く、
一文字派中同派と鏨せられる優品也。
一類では吉家・吉氏が代表で元徳・元亨の年紀が知られる。
長二尺三寸三分
吋令和五癸卯年端月下浣
探山観并記(花押)

 

TIL: 塩相(しおあい/shioai) is a word referring to both Nie and Nioi, used in old sword books (古剣書) like 紛寄論 and many others.

[Lewis B]

Here is an AI translation of the Sayagaki

 

"The steel displays a refined, tightly forged itame-hada (wood-grain pattern) accompanied by a faint, misty utsuri (reflection effect). The hamon (temper line) consists of a restrained, low-variance ko-choji (small clove shapes) mixed with ko-gunome (small undulating waves). The cutting edge features abundant ashi (vertical activity lines), with a dominant nioi-based composition accompanied by fine ko-nie crystals, presenting a bright and clear appearance. The boshi (temper line in the point) continues straight into a rounded return, with the structural condition of its nioiguchi (boundary line) being exceptionally well-composed.

This is a masterpiece authenticated as a product of the aforementioned Iwato branch within the grand Ichimonji tradition. Representative smiths of this lineage include Yoshiie and Yoshiuji, whose working periods are confirmed by existing inscriptions from the Gentoku and Genko eras (1319–1332).

Blade Length: 2 shaku, 3 sun, 3 bu (approx. 70.6 cm / 27.8 inches).

Written and recorded during the last ten days of the first month in the year of the Water Rabbit, the 5th year of Reiwa (January 2023) by Tanzan [Tanobe Michihiro], followed by his personal monogram (kaō)."

[lonely panet]

3 hours ago, Elias6677 said:

Hello everyone,

I’m currently in discussions with the dealer at AOI Japan and trying to make a difficult decision between two swords:

• Sa Yoshisada (Juyo Token) – around 5,000,000 Yen
• Den Iwato Ichimonji (Juyo Token) – around 5,800,000 Yen

As a beginner in the world of Nihonto, I’m trying not to decide based only on appearance, but also on history, reputation of the school, rarity, and long-term appreciation.

Which blade would you personally recommend — and why? Are there important aspects that beginners often overlook when choosing between pieces like these?

I would really appreciate your honest opinions and recommendations. Thank you very much for your help.

i think you need your head checked if you are spending clost to 50kaud on something you admit to being uneducated in,  then then going onto a web forum to ask advice from peaple you dont know or understand there level of education. seriously do you have money to burn??

also there are far better more honest dealers then tsurta..... iv meet him,  had lunch with him,  and done buisness through him.  honestly isnt always there. photoshop hmmmmm

 

so either your rich and stipid or your fishing/trolling/ baiting what ever the term is??

 

there are very educated peaple in germany,  in europe that can help you understand whats good,  bad or great. 

[Lewis B]

24 minutes ago, lonely panet said:

 

 

there are very educated peaple in germany,  in europe that can help you understand whats good,  bad or great. 

This is very true. Heck, go visit the Samurai Museum in Berlin. It's on your doorstep and a showcase of world class artefacts from all eras of Japanese Samurai culture. The artistic design presents the items in a unique, immersive and informative way, putting many similar institutions to shame. 

[Rivkin]

Its a very personal thing, but:

This is very good Iwato and overall good Ichimonji. Restrained, without choji going to shinogi or crazy utsuri, but very good dense jigane and very good hamon and good condition.

I like Sa school better in general, but the shown example is average for the school or slightly above average. Very good jigane, some activity within the hamon, but nothing groundbreaking.

[PNSSHOGUN]

The Ichimonji is a very fine sword, it stands head and shoulders above the Sa.

[Rawa]

4 minutes ago, PNSSHOGUN said:

The Ichimonji is a very fine sword, it stands head and shoulders above the Sa.

Yeah 730 grams vs 550 grams. Above 70cm. Koshirae makes Sa in similar price bracket, not a blade.

Wait for Utrecht, go to Utrecht? You are based in Germany @Elias6677

Edited 8 hours ago by Rawa

[klee]

Im very biased since I love Sa and ichimonji never quite did it for me. 

 

The jigane on the Sa is incredible. I would never get tierd of it. Im never a fan of koshirae inflating the price so that part is a little off putting but oh well 

[Lewis B]

Translation of the Juyo zufu for iwato blade:

Jūyō Tōken Appraisal Report

65th Designation Session — November 7, 2019 (Reiwa 1)

 

---

 

Classification & Attribution

• Type: Katana (刀)
• Signature: Mumei (Unsigned); attributed to the Iwado Ichimonjischool (無銘 伝岩戸一文字)
• Quantity: One item (一口)
• Appraiser: Sato Hitoshi (佐藤 均)

 

---

 

Technical Dimensions (Hōryō)

• Blade Length (Nagasa): 77.6 cm
• Curvature (Sori): 1.2 cm
• Motohaba (Base Width): 2.95 cm
• Sakihaba (Tip Width): 1.85 cm
• Kissaki Length: 2.65 cm
• Nakago Length: 21.5 cm
• Nakago Curvature: 0.1 cm

 

---

 

Connoisseurship & Workmanship (Keijō)

 

Form (Sugata)

• Shape: Built in shinogi-zukuri with an iori-mune. The blade presents a powerful, wide profile with minimal tapering from the base to the point. It features a robust thickness (kasane), a characteristically shallow sori, and terminates in a standard chū-kissaki.

 

Steel Grain (Kitae)

• Structure: A masterfully forged itame-hada (wood grain) closely interwoven with mokume-hada (burl grain). The surface is densely and richly coated in fine, vibrant jinie, interspersed with crisp chikei lines. A faint, elegant utsuri (mist-like reflection) rises clearly across the blade.

 

Temper Line (Hamon)

• Pattern: A base of shallow notare(wavy line) complexly mixed with ko-gunome (small undulating nodes) and ko-chōji (small clove shapes). The hardening structure is highly active, showing frequent ashi (legs) and yō(leaves). The edge is frosted with fine, crystalline nie, showing subtle kinsuji(golden lines) and delicate sunagashi(sand-stream) effects.

 

Point (Bōshi)

• Tempering: Follows a restrained sugu(straight) path, resolving in a neat, small maru (rounded) turnback.

 

Tang (Nakago)

• Condition: Ō-suriage (significantly shortened). The heel is cut flat in kirifashion. The file marks are slanted katasagari. It bears two mekugi-ana(peg holes) and remains entirely mumei (unsigned).

 

---

 

Appraisal Commentary (Setsumei)

During the Kamakura period, the dominant lineage of Bizen province split into the legendary Fukuoka and Yoshioka Ichimonji branches. Parallel to these mainlines, several smaller, highly specialized offshoots emerged, including the Iwado Ichimonji group.

The name "Ichimonji" derives from the signature style of these schools, where smiths famously chiseled the single horizontal character "Ichi" (一) into the tang. Some blades bear only this solitary character, while others append the smith's individual name beneath it. The Iwado line specifically refers to a localized collective of artisans active in the Iwado district of Bizen toward the twilight of the Kamakura era. Extant signed examples from this group establish their lineage directly back to the Yoshioka clan.

This specific specimen exhibits an exceptional, tightly knit steel texture (hada), highlighted by a remarkably thick, deep layer of jinie and fine chikeiactivity. When compared directly to classic Fukuoka Ichimonji pieces, the hamon presented here displays a tighter, more compact arrangement of ko-chōji and ko-gunome elements. Rather than overwhelming with flashiness, the blade relies on a deep, quiet craftsmanship and superior forging control. These traits perfectly align with the textbook characteristics of the Iwado Ichimonji school, making it a stellar representation worthy of its high-ranking status.

Edited 7 hours ago by Lewis B

[Lewis B]

And Yoshisada

 

Designated on November 7, 2019 (Reiwa 1)
65th Deliberation Session

 

KATANA

Mumei: Attributed to Sa Yoshisada (左吉貞)
One Blade (Ikkō)

 

---

 

I. SPECS & MEASUREMENTS (Hōryō)

• Length (Nagasa): 69.7 cm (2 shaku, 2 sun, 9.1 bu)
• Curvature (Sori): 1.6 cm
• Motohaba (Base Width): 2.8 cm
• Sakihaba (Tip Width): 1.8 cm
• Kissaki Length: 3.9 cm
• Nakago Length: 18.5 cm
• Nakago Curvature: 0.1 cm

 

---

 

II. TECHNICAL DESCRIPTION

 

1. Shape & Configuration (Keijō)

Shinogi-zukuri with a mitsu-mune. The blade width is standard, the kasane(thickness) is robust, and the sori is shallow. The blade terminates in an elongated chū-kissaki.

 

2. Forging Pattern (Kitae)

The grain is a well-grained itame-hadamixed with mokume, showing areas of nagare-gokoro (streaming grain) toward the ha (cutting edge). The ji is thickly covered in ji-nie, abundant with chikei, and the jigane appears remarkably clear, bright, and well-refined.

 

3. Temper Line (Hamon)

The temper line is based on a shallow notare (wavy line) mixed with gunomeand ko-gunome. The structure is ko-niebased, showing an overall low-toned, subdued architecture. Vertical activities such as ashi and yō are present. The nioikuchi is exceedingly bright, clear, and well-defined.

 

4. Point Temper (Bōshi)

Runs straight (sugu) into a sharp, energetic thrust upward (tsukiage-gokoro), turning back in a clean, tight radius (maru-ni-kaeru).

 

5. Engravings (Horimono)

Both the omote (outer) and ura (inner) sides feature a bōhi (wide groove) carved through the bottom of the tang (kakitōshi).

 

6. Tang (Nakago)

Greatly shortened (ō-suriage). The tip of the tang is cut flat (kirizume). The file marks are osaka-yasuri (horizontal). There are two mekugi-ana (peg holes). The blade is unsigned (mumei).

 

---

 

III. APPRAISER’S COMMENTARY (Setsumei)

Swordsmith Yoshisada was a direct student and son of the legendary master Samonji (the Left). He operated during the mid-14th century (Nanbokuchō period) within the Chikuzen tradition. While extant signed examples of his long swords (tachi) are exceptionally rare, his hand is frequently identified on shorter wakizashi and tantō.

This specific katana exhibits the hallmark, masterful traits of the Sa (Left) School. The jigane is outstandingly robust, displaying an abundance of ji-nieand active, flowing chikei lines. The hamon showcases intense, dynamic steel activity (hataraki).

The blade retains an extraordinarily healthy state (kenzen) across both its core body and edges, yielding a dignified, high-class atmosphere (kobin). Consequently, the panel concludes that this blade represents the absolute pinnacle of Yoshisada’s unsigned craftsmanship and officially designates it here as Jūyō Tōken

Edited 7 hours ago by Lewis B

[Mushin]

The blades are radically different — different traditions, different aesthetics, different emotional impact. In some ways, asking whether the Jūyō Iwato Ichimonji or the Jūyō Sa Yoshisada is “better” is like asking which classic Hollywood star was more beautiful. There is no objective answer.

The real question is: what are YOU looking for?

Do you want the flamboyant, aristocratic elegance and luminous choji of Ichimonji? Or the darker, more intense, more inwardly powerful atmosphere of late-Soshu Sa work? Those are fundamentally different experiences.

At the Jūyō level, you are already operating in rare air. Many collectors on this board have never even handled a Jūyō blade, let alone had the opportunity to choose between two. 

Is this an investment question? A market-value question? A “best bang for the buck” question? A school popularity question? Or is it about which sword actually moves you when you hold it?

Because ultimately, that is the only thing that matters. The sword you keep coming back to in your mind — the one that pulls at you a little — is probably your answer. On the matter I will say only this: there appears to me to be no shortage of Ichimonji or Rai school blades out there in the market. If you miss one, another one will come along, both better and worse. The same can't be said for blades directly attributed to Sa School smiths. But, again, it all comes down to what moves YOU. Nobody here can answer that but YOU. 

[klee]

Extremely well written and explained as always @Mushin 🙏🙏🙏

[Elias6677]

48 minutes ago, Mushin said:

 

The blades are radically different — different traditions, different aesthetics, different emotional impact. In some ways, asking whether the Jūyō Iwato Ichimonji or the Jūyō Sa Yoshisada is “better” is like asking which classic Hollywood star was more beautiful. There is no objective answer.

The real question is: what are YOU looking for?

Do you want the flamboyant, aristocratic elegance and luminous choji of Ichimonji? Or the darker, more intense, more inwardly powerful atmosphere of late-Soshu Sa work? Those are fundamentally different experiences.

At the Jūyō level, you are already operating in rare air. Many collectors on this board have never even handled a Jūyō blade, let alone had the opportunity to choose between two. 

Is this an investment question? A market-value question? A “best bang for the buck” question? A school popularity question? Or is it about which sword actually moves you when you hold it?

Because ultimately, that is the only thing that matters. The sword you keep coming back to in your mind — the one that pulls at you a little — is probably your answer. On the matter I will say only this: there appears to me to be no shortage of Ichimonji or Rai school blades out there in the market. If you miss one, another one will come along, both better and worse. The same can't be said for blades directly attributed to Sa School smiths. But, again, it all comes down to what moves YOU. Nobody here can answer that but YOU. 

I spent two months in Japan, and during that time I developed a real fascination with Japanese culture and history. Because of that, I’m willing to invest a certain amount of money in a historical sword. For me, owning and admiring a genuine piece of Japanese history on a daily basis is something very special.

 

However, I’m an absolute beginner. I don’t want to lose money unnecessarily, and I know I currently lack the experience and trained eye to recognize an exceptional blade. I hope that will change over time as I continue learning.

 

At the moment, I’m mainly trying to gather information and avoid paying expensive “tuition fees” through bad decisions. I’ve learned a lot over the last few weeks, but I still don’t want to buy a katana without a clear understanding of what I’m purchasing.

 

For me, the history and quality of the blade are more important than appearance alone. I would really appreciate any advice or opinions from more experienced collectors.

[klee]

@Elias6677

 

It s a great endless journey for sure and I hope you find great satisfaction which ever way you decide to go. I dont think theres really a wrong decision here from a financial point of view.

 

Its always difficult deciding on that 1st piece but once you do , I think you will quickly find a direction you want to go. You are much more fortunate than others in that you are able to start from a much higher financial starting point. You might want to delve more into the same school, a different time period, different tradition, or maybe focus into the same smith even. 

 

There are great people on the forum like @Mushin, @Rivkin and many others who ve helped me a great deal over the years. And when it comes to data, we are extremely fortunate to have @Jussi Ekholm

 

Great wishes on your journey and looking forward to hearing about your decision and hopefully more details of the blade when you receive it ( esp if you go with Sa 😁 ) 

 

[Mushin]

I am not trying to be difficult here but the questions really don't make a lot of sense to me. For example, please define what you mean by "history" of the blade? Are you talking provenance? The history of the period when it was made? How the smiths and schools were seen by history? Given that one sword is attributed to a smith who was the son of one of the most important sword makers in Japan, and the other is broadly attributed to a school, is that the kind of historical touchstone you are referring to?

These decisions for many collectors are normally based on their own interests and collections. If you collect Nanbokucho Soshu, then the Sa blade fits. If you collect Kamakura Bizen then Ichimonji would be the way to go. Other collectors just buy what moves them. Some just buy Juyo. Some want blades w/cutting tests or battle damage. Some want swords from particular time periods or schools.

Now, broadly speaking Iwato Ichimonji is viewed as the least prestigious of the four Ichimonji traditions, the others being Ko-Ichimonji, Fukuoka Ichimonji and Yoshioka Ichimonji. Hard core Ichimonji fans love the first two. But it ultimately depends on the sword, because even the worse Ichimonji can be great. That said I have seen MANY ho-hum Ichimonji. In fact, I was kind of unimpressed with the hype surrounding Ichimonji swords until seeing Paul Davidson's Yoshioka Ichimonji two years ago at Sothebys. It was like a revelation, like seeing a sword for the first time: a brilliant habuchi with choji that looked almost three dimensional; layers of floating utusuri like the clouds a plane passes through on its way to a landing. Never handled one like that before. I've seen some nice ones but this was the first and only one I ever handled where I remember thinking: "So this is what all the Ichimonji excitement is about."

So, If my pocket were full of change, and if I were hunting for an Ichimonji blade, I would want something at least which approaches that. But that's aesthetics, not history.

Elias, while I appreciate your desire to touch history, my recommendation is almost like a mantra or broken record on this board: keep your money in your pocket. Study. Look at as many swords as you can. And when you decide what school or time period moves you, then go shopping. Until then, keep your powder dry and your mind open. Buying swords is easy. Buying the right sword takes study. Best of luck.

 

[Elias6677]

10 minutes ago, Mushin said:

I am not trying to be difficult here but the questions really don't make a lot of sense to me. For example, please define what you mean by "history" of the blade? Are you talking provenance? The history of the period when it was made? How the smiths and schools were seen by history? Given that one sword is attributed to a smith who was the son of one of the most important sword makers in Japan, and the other is broadly attributed to a school, is that the kind of historical touchstone you are referring to?

These decisions for many collectors are normally based on their own interests and collections. If you collect Nanbokucho Soshu, then the Sa blade fits. If you collect Kamakura Bizen then Ichimonji would be the way to go. Other collectors just buy what moves them. Some just buy Juyo. Some want blades w/cutting tests or battle damage. Some want swords from particular time periods or schools.

Now, broadly speaking Iwato Ichimonji is generally viewed as the least prestigious of the four Ichimonji traditions, the others being Ko-Ichimonji, Fukuoka Ichimonji and Yoshioka Ichimonji. Hard core Ichimonji fans love the first two. But it ultimately depends on the sword, because even the worse Ichimonji can be great. That said I have seen MANY ho-hum Ichimonji. In fact, I was kind of unimpressed with the hype surrounding Ichimonji swords until seeing Paul Davidson's Yoshioka Ichimonji two years ago at Sothebys. It was like a revelation, like seeing a sword for the first time: a brilliant habuchi with choji that looked almost three dimensional; layers of floating utusuri like the clouds a plane passes through on its way to a landing. Never handled one like that before. I've seen some nice ones but this was the first and only one I ever handled where I remember thinking: "So this is what all the Ichimonji hype is about."

So, If my pocket were full of change, and if I were hunting for an Ichimonji blade, I would want something at least which approaches that. But that's aesthetics, not history.

Elias, while I appreciate your desire to touch history, my recommendation is almost like a mantra or broken record on this board: keep your money in your pocket. Study. Look at as many swords as you can. And when you decide what school or time period moves you, then go shopping. Until then, keep your powder dry and your mind open. Buying swords is easy. Buying the right sword takes study. Best of luck.

 

Thank you very much for your honest and wise words. As a beginner, I think it’s easy to change your opinion quickly while still learning. Personally, I’ve developed a real appreciation for Japanese craftsmanship and the history behind it. Reading many discussions, I’ve realized that a great sword is not defined only by age or appearance. There are many different aspects that make a Katana truly special — several of which you already explained in detail.

 

Because of that, I think you are right: I should take my time. A beginner’s preferences can change quickly until they eventually discover what truly fascinates them. I would be genuinely grateful, though, if in the near future you could recommend a few blades and explain what makes them historically or artistically special. That kind of insight helps me tremendously to better understand the market and the fascination behind Samurai swords much faster.

 

I’m sincerely thankful for your advice and for taking the time to share your knowledge with me. It’s more helpful than you probably realize.

[Rawa]

Go to Utrecht then. Best opportunity to see irl what world of nihonto have to offer, at least in Europe.

[eternal_newbie]

31 minutes ago, Rawa said:

Best opportunity to see irl what world of nihonto have to offer, at least in Europe.

 

And not just that - but a large number of enthusiasts, not just sellers, but buyers and scholars too, who can point out to you exactly what makes each piece so special (or less-than special). Top-tier nihonto are notoriously hard to photograph and your knowledge and tastes will grow leaps and bounds faster when viewing blades in person than they would doing research online.

[Gakusee]

As others have said, you need to determine your aesthetic preferences first and then also fine tune your technical knowledge. 
I would not be too harsh on you here as both swords have similarish notate hamon outline (at least the Kesho outline) but Ichimonji has more choji and slanting gunome. That aside, it is clear to me you like robust-looking (both have very similar moto/sakihaba) older swords (14 century Koto). 
 

Look at how healthy the Iwato is. It is 50% heavier for only 10% more length. 
 

Also look at the jigane. While the setsumei (narrative) of the Juyo certificate of the Sa comments about it being kenzen (well preserved and healthy), I would say the Iwato seems healthier and also the jigane is tighter.

 

The koshirae are both average (at best) typical Aoi add-ons, adduced by Aoi to make the “packages” more attractive to a foreigner.

Don’t be skewed by them.  

Utrecht is helpful but don’t expect heaven and earth. After all, it is only 8-9 dealers. And 
if you can, visit Utrecht, visit collectors, go to the DTI. The latter is the real eye opener as that is where you see the top quality which Utrecht cannot give you (you will see JuBi and if you are lucky the occasional JuBu, lots of TokuJu and countless Juyo). Tune your eye and understanding. 

[Jussi Ekholm]

The Iwato Ichimonji has passed through several dealers after passing the Jūyō shinsa.

 

2021 - https://web.archive.org/web/20210612111517/https://katananokura.jp/SHOP/2105-K02.html (without koshirae)

2025 - https://web.archive.org/web/20250322181409/https://www.samurai-nippon.net/SHOP/V-2114.html

2025 - https://www.toukentakarado.com/item-tk017-juyo-den-iwato-ichimonji

2026 - https://www.aoijapan.com/katana：mumeiunsigned-den-iwato-ichimonji-65th-juyo-token/

[Rawa]

44 minutes ago, Jussi Ekholm said:

The Iwato Ichimonji has passed through several dealers after passing the Jūyō shinsa.

 

2021 - https://web.archive.org/web/20210612111517/https://katananokura.jp/SHOP/2105-K02.html (without koshirae)

2025 - https://web.archive.org/web/20250322181409/https://www.samurai-nippon.net/SHOP/V-2114.html

2025 - https://www.toukentakarado.com/item-tk017-juyo-den-iwato-ichimonji

2026 - https://www.aoijapan.com/katana：mumeiunsigned-den-iwato-ichimonji-65th-juyo-token/

So cool Jussi, in 2021 valued at 5,5 million then 6.5 with koshirae. Maybe kissaki scares peps here.

Edited 3 hours ago by Rawa

[Mushin]

2 hours ago, Gakusee said:

Also look at the jigane. While the setsumei (narrative) of the Juyo certificate of the Sa comments about it being kenzen (well preserved and healthy), I would say the Iwato seems healthier and also the jigane is tighter.

Michael,

As usual, I agree with you wholeheartedly but I'm not sure I concur 100% on the above point. There are some ware in the Ichimonji hamon, small indeed, but pitting and openings in the ha kinda drive me crazy even on almost 700-year-old blades. Can't always be avoided and I get that. It's a purely personal thing. And when you say the Iwato jigane is tighter, I would argue that Bizen jigane is almost always going to be tighter than Sa School work, with the exception of maybe Yasuyoshi whose work appears to have been influenced by the Bizen school. The Iwato has flashes of brilliance but never quite gets there for my taste, but that's Iwato, I guess. It just doesn't have that "oomph" that the other Ichimonji schools have. Likewise, the Sa blade is well above average with a nice thick nioiguchi, but it's nowhere close to the top of the Sa School pile.At the same time neither of them are priced like they are national treasures. And I agree that by and large they on equal footing, both being stout Nanbokucho works done in notare, offering the qualities of their respective traditions. The ask isn't huge, but it is a big leap for most people. But I am with you in that Elias should walk away at this point and study until he knows what his heart desires, and a trip to DTI would be mind-opening. In fact, I need to go one of these years before I am a fully petrified fossil.

 

PS: I am trying not to be a victim of my own Sa School fanboy inclinations but it's hard not to love what you love and not be swayed by that.