Ww2 Surrender tag translation please

[Andygw]

Hi there, i have a new purchased navy sword to my collection. There is a surrender tag on the saya. When i bought this sword the translation was : Colonel Matsui Shimakichi, 146 Miyajima, Saeki - gun Hiroshima. However after research i can not find this exact officer. It comes back as a possible mistranslation.  Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank You in advance. 

Edited 14 hours ago by Andygw

[Andygw]

P.S : Apparently there is no ww2 Japanese rank of Colonel in the IJN, its equal is Captain.

Edited 14 hours ago by Andygw

[Andygw]

[Shugyosha]

Hi Andy,

I think the translation that you have for the tag is accurate:

 

広島県 – Hiroshima Ken - Hiroshima Prefecture

佐伯郡 - Saeki Gun - Saeki district

官島町 – Miyajima Machi - Miyajima town

一四六 – 146

海軍大佐 – Kaigun Daisa (Navy Colonel)

松井島吉 – Matsui Shimakichi (Given name)

I don't know anything about Japanese Navy ranks, however, when I put "Daisa" into the online dictionary that I use, the definition comes back as "colonel; (navy) captain" so it might just be a semantic thing. https://jisho.org/search/daisa

That said, how convinced are you that the surrender tag is genuine? It looks practically pristine and the ink is so black it could have been written yesterday...

[Andygw]

Thank You so much for Your help. I really appreciate it. Kind regards, andy. 

[Andygw]

Hi John, just in reply to Your message. I cant find any info on the officer. I would be surprised if it was not genuine however it is an possibility. Is there any way to find out? Kind regards, andy

[Shugyosha]

I don't know but there's a number of people who might, among them: @PNSSHOGUN @robinalexander @Bruce Pennington

 

Hopefully you'll get some help there.

[ROKUJURO]

This tag looks unusually "fresh" in my opinion, compared with others that have been shown here.

[Shugyosha]

Hi Andy,

One more thing to check, the name "Matsukichi" can also be read "Matsuyoshi" from the same kanji so your guy might come up under the alternative reading.

[robinalexander]

Hi Andrew, 

 

The Kai Gunto looks good from the little that's shown.

 

Sword aside, I am no expert re translation or surrender tags for that matter.... I have only one but i have seen many. I also know what I would believe and buy and this 'surrender tag' is not it.

 

To be honest I would be making observations and asking lots of questions of the seller. IMO this tag is just not >80 years old. 

The age of the material (Calico?) is so wrong as is the new twine and fresh texta kanji.  

 

Maybe it's a copy of the original that fell apart or was lost? But, considering the above and with the anomaly of the rank IJN vs IJA, I would question both the authenticity of the 'tag' and any supposed relationship with the sword.

 

For me, what ever is written on the tag is academic.

 

Don't mean to be negative ....just my opinion.

All the best.

Rob

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

The tag looks very new indeed, do you have any history of how it came to Australia? I couldn't find a record of a Matsui Shimakichi in the list of Etajima graduates, it is possible he was a graduate of the IJN aviation academy or a civilian employee working for the Navy.

 

It would help to know where the sword was surrendered to narrow down the possibilities.  

[Andygw]

Hi there, it was a ebay purchase from showa22. I know His descriptions can be off. Ive bought a few swords off Him several times before over the years. Never had an issue with authenticity. Just not accurate condition description. The seller is from America. The cotton does have a large crease down the middle. Its a bit of a mystery, if it was not a genuine surrender tag, id rather take it off as the sword itself and fittings are right. But at the same time i dont want to throw it away incase its genuine or like mentioned re written. 

[Andygw]

I just spoke to the seller showa22. They said it is definately an genuine surrender tag.. the blade is actually a traditionally made blade by kunimitsu. 

[John C]

I have to agree with the above assessments on the tag. My initial thoughts were that it looks too new. The ink looks like it was from a Sharpie rather than brushed. Can you tell  up close? I guess it could be original IF it is brushed/ink pen AND were kept in a sealed box for the last 80 years. Not even a speck of dust on the cloth. But I would question it.

 

John C.

[Nobody]

The tag looks questionable to me.

The town’s name Miyajima-cho (宮島町) was used after 1950. If the tag was written just after the end of WWII (1945), the town’s name should be Itsukushima-cho (厳島町).

At the time, Hiroshima-ken was most likely written as 廣島縣.

There are three 島 kanji on the tag. They are all wrong characters.

宮 looks strange. It looks like 官

[Bruce Pennington]

Andrew,

I can't add anything about the tag that hasn't already been said, but would love to see more of the kaigunto, fittings, blade, and nakago!

 

There are guys on a couple other forums that know how to look up WWII personnel.  Try

 

Warrelics - Japanese Militaria

 

and 

 

Wehrmacht-awards - Japanese Military Forum