**UPDATE PICS OF MEI** KUNIYUKI who was he?

[jason_mazzy]

KUNIYUKI wakazishi blade for sale. I was trying to look him up but found no information on him. From condition of nakago And blade shape I am thinking this is gendai. What are your opinions and what information is available?

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/LONG-WAKIZASHI-SUGU ... 5192509185

 

 

 

edit 1*through my research the smiths 2 different are 13th or 14th century. neither seem to describe this blade.

 

edit 2* I found a 3rd listed Kuniyuki: YAMATO NO DAIJO KUNIYUKI, WORKED AROUND 1661 OF THE KANBUN ERA OF THE SHINTO PERIOD. HIS WORKS WERE RATED CHUSAKU AND WAZAMONO FOR THEIR EXTREME SHARPNESS.

 

Do you think this blade refers to the kuniyuki in edit #2?

 

http://mugendo.fiw-web.net/IMGP6735.jpg you can use this to zoom in on the horrible pictures. lets me look closer at mei.

 

EDIT NEW MEI:

[John A Stuart]

Shinto I'm sure, the patina and remember the time shoto were introduced. Of the two Shinto smiths Kuniyuki, one uses these kanji, but, the one oshigata I have does not match. The 'kuni' is particularly dissimilar. John

[Jean]

Jason,

 

I admire you, you keep posting e-bay nihonto with few artistic value and ask refreshing question.

 

What is your goal in posting all these e-bay's posts?

 

I warn you, I won't accept learning as an answer

 

You are enthusiastic but have absolutelly no methodology, you are going to loose years asking question like that instead of studying with methodology

 

You won't ever learn anything by studying e-bay nihonto, because you will only see at most chu nihonto on sale. Why don't you go to commercial sites of Dr Stein's website and study first class pictures, ataraki ... Why is it a good sword, why has it been granted such kanteisho....?

 

Have you ever seen/held a Nihonto in your hand? If yes you would not be very interested in e-bay Nihonto. More than 95% are crap (sorry for my poor English). To be able to spot the 5% worth of interest you must know Nihonto and have seen good blades.

 

Now, instead of asking if it is smith N°2, what is your opinion?

 

Regretfully, I must say that whatever it is, it is worthless.

 

Why? Because :

 

- You must first check the sword: the hada, ataraki, suguta ... and then decides if it matches the mei

 

First the blade, the mei is of no interest in most cases (see O suriage Juyo blades).

 

How can you see from the pictures the quality of the blade?

 

Suriage shinto, not worth the price. I have seen a Ko Mihara ubu in the FS section at a bit more than twice the price which was fabulous.

 

The: is it or not this smith is of no interest (in my very very humble opinion ) The question is : is it a good blade and nobody can answer from the pictures...

[estcrh]

Jason,

 

I admire you, you keep posting e-bay nihonto with few artistic value and ask refreshing question.

 

What is your goal in posting all these e-bay's posts?

 

I warn you, I won't accept learning as an answer

 

You are enthusiastic but have absolutelly no methodology, you are going to loose years asking question like that instead of studying with methodology

 

You won't ever learn anything by studying e-bay nihonto, because you will only see at most chu nihonto on sale. Why don't you go to commercial sites of Dr Stein's website and study first class pictures, ataraki ... Why is it a good sword, why has it been granted such kanteisho....?

 

Have you ever seen/held a Nihonto in your hand? If yes you would not be very interested in e-bay Nihonto. More than 95% are crap (sorry for my poor English). To be able to spot the 5% worth of interest you must know Nihonto and have seen good blades.

 

Now, instead of asking if it is smith N°2, what is your opinion?

 

Regretfully, I must say that whatever it is, it is worthless.

 

Why? Because :

 

- You must first check the sword: the hada, ataraki, suguta ... and then decides if it matches the mei

 

First the blade, the mei is of no interest in most cases (see O suriage Juyo blades).

 

How can you see from the pictures the quality of the blade?

 

Suriage shinto, not worth the price. I have seen a Ko Mihara ubu in the FS section at a bit more than twice the price which was fabulous.

 

The: is it or not this smith is of no interest (in my very very humble opinion ) The question is : is it a good blade and nobody can answer from the pictures...

Jean, I was thinking the same thing while I was looking at the pictures posted, how someone who sells swords...especially from Japan were it would be hard to return....can expect to be taken seriously when the most important areas of the sword are not pictured is beyond me. "I decline the return of goods of KATANA,WAKIZASHI,TANTO,YARI

and NAGINATA entirely".

 

This statement alone should scare anyone off but I see that there is already an offer made on this sword. Unfortunately in the U.S. it is very hard to find anyone who will let you look at their swords let alone hold them! People are amazed when I actually let them look at and examine my poor collection, and a lot of cities here just do not have collector groups. So I can understand someone wanting to own something of their own even if its not the best quality but I agree with you that if someone is willing to wait and learn and save (even for a few years) they will eventually own something worth while.

[jason_mazzy]

Well as I was looking through ebay I came across the name. When i studied the name it was of limited information. So I pulled out a book, then scoured the internet some more as a way of matching the name. Seeing as to my untrained eye, the blade did not seem koto I began searching for a more recent Kuniyuki. As you see by my edited posts I found a more recent Kuniyuki, who from my study is said to have made very good swords especially known for their cutting ability. I know most of you hate the dreaded ebay, but as a hopeful romantic I am sure 1 or 2 good ones pop up from time to time, and as a lesson of study I was trying to attribute the blade using what limited nihonto skills i have recently aquired. As I have reached the end of my abilities I am asking if I was correct in my final submission, and if not who was the right one. as of now the quality of the blade is irrelevant as my question pertained to the smith, and not the value of the blade in question.

[Jean]

Jason,

 

What are your sources?

 

You have found 3 kuniyuki, I have found 50 listed by Hawley. With a 20% error margin, it leaves 42 smiths with this name. 10 are shinto/shinshinto.

 

The one you are talking about is the second generation Kanbun Bungo smith, listed as wazamono, he is listed as chu-saku (15 points in the Hawley). Niji-mei is not so frequent in Shinto, above all when the smith had a title. (confirmed by Fujishiro Oshigata)

 

Now, out of these 1O shinto/shinshinto smiths what makes you think it is this one?

 

Do you think considering the poor pictures that the sori matches a kanbun blade (taking into account the suriage)?

 

 

The smith is a medium one as a lot of Bungo smiths (or Mino), is wazamono as a lot of smiths and is in no way oustanding.

 

So, to answer your question, no one can tell but certainly not the 2nd Bungo Kanbun smith.

 

 

Remark : You said it is not Koto, with the niji mei you should have had a ringing bell warning.: How can a smith with such a title signed only his name, very very unlike Shinto smiths ....

[moss]

Eric,

 

"I decline the return of goods of KATANA,WAKIZASHI,TANTO,YARI

and NAGINATA entirely"

.

What the seller means is, no return is possible due to Japanese Registration being realeased to export.(Your name etc gos on the release paper)

It would be too much of a headache and costly to reinstate the paperwork.

It should not stop you buying if the piece is good enough.

It stops 'window shoppers'who potentially buy, view, then reverse Paypal,and send back

I guess that sums it up.

 

Cheers Moss

[Jean]

What the seller means is, no return is possible due to Japanese Registration being realeased to export.(Your name etc gos on the release paper)

It would be too much of a headache and costly to reinstate the paperwork.

 

Unfortunatelly for him, other Japanese sellers do it .......

[moss]

Yes that is true Jean,

The sellers of high quality blades undoubtedly do.

 

But Ebay

Well ?

I know I would set some firm rules if I were selling there.

Imagine the demands of multiple bidders asking 6 000 000 questions,wanting customs declaration reductions,all needy indeed.

Then having the dam piece of junk returned because a buyer suffered remorse or was told once he had it in hand the faults the blade suffered etc etc etc.

I can understand and agree with the seller.

Only pay what you can afford to lose or don't buy.

 

All the above rant is only my opinion for what it may be worth.

 

Cheers Moss

[Jean]

Only pay what you can afford to lose or don't buy.

 

[sanjuro]

Jean.

 

Re your 'admire you' post. Well said, and not before time. Constant reference to rubbish examples does not constitute a learning experience. There is nothing positive to learn where mainly negative examples abound. If one wishes to learn, one goes to a place where it is structured and where quality examples can be found. NOT to a street corner, which is basically what Ebay is.

[Amon]

I think Clive Sinclaire explained it very well in his book "Samurai swords"

 

Best regards,

[Brian]

Well said Jean.

Nothing against you Jason, but I see far too much eBay mediocre crap being discussed lately and not enough educational stuff. This is never about matching up mei to a smith. It is all about recognising traits in a swords and using a mei to verify or not.

Don't worry, we were all there. Your intentions are good, you just need to slow down and take some time. We are here to help, although sometimes it may seem like "tough love" :D

 

Brian

[jason_mazzy]

Well my learning resources are limited to 2 books, and google. Thats why it is hard for me to find the smith and the kanji that match. It also appears from my look that the blade is a cutdown and the mei was severed, so no way of getting the full signature. I'm a single dad and a disabled combat veteran, so I don't get out much. You gentlemen with all the experiance bash ebay and me looking there, but do not offer many other ways to look and learn. If the only way to learn is to hold nihonto, then maybe all the new men in nihonto need to buy a pile of rubish just to learn. I personally am trying to avoid that situation, by looking at mei's, looking at blades and trying to attribute them with my limited information. Don't jump on me for looking. Don't get on to me for having limited resources. I never said hey should I buy this, tell me its good please..... blah blah blah. I asked simply who probably made this, and did I find the right smith. You may not want to learn that way or say it is not learning, but it is learning. I am looking and asking for your information. Don't judge the new guy for wanting to learn, perhaps be refreshed I am actually looking and trying to do some leg work.

 

edit first mei looks like: 図 drawing zu haka-ru

don't think that can be right type of kanji

edit: second kanji looks similar to O.

[ottou812]

Jason, you should be looking at buying more books before you think about buying nihonto.

[jason_mazzy]

LOL. doing the best i can on books. Am studyuing the 2 bibles now. then onto the 3rd book recomended here.

[Stephen]

Jason its been told first kanji is kuni second yuki

[Jean]

Jason,

 

We know the sword you show us is Nihonto. We know it is signed Kuniyuki, it may be genuine but no one here can say "yes" or "no".

 

Why? because with have no reference in our books of a smith signing this way.

 

You are going to learn something today : a mei on sword finishes by the smith name (followed sometimes or often depending on the period by the kanji "saku" or "saku kore" (made by).

 

What does it mean : it means that if anything was added to this mei, it would be above the smith name. Though the sword is cut (suriage) (were it cut above the mei, it would have been O suriage - the mei having been cut away) - you have it in full.

 

Not all of the smiths' mei are listed and it is difficult to have all the books treating the subject (there are plenty : Fujishiro Nihonto Jiten, Nihonto Taikan, Nihonto Zuikan, Mino To Taikan ...) - Only Japanese experts could perhaps say if the mei is genuine and if not give a paper stating that further inquiries are needed and that they can't make up their mind - I saw it for a katana signed Kanyoshi dtd end of Nambokucho, beginning Muromachi.

 

To try to learn kanji, here is a site with fantastic pictures of Swords and mei :

 

http://www.aoi-art.com/

 

In browsing everyday you can easily learn the basic Kanji - you also have the very usefull Kanji pages from our friend Ted (you'll find the links on NMB site)

 

I shall prefer that new posts were done in the Nihonto section - Taking a sword for example from Aoi Art and discuss its merit. You will learn a lot and you could even become a very goo LoL (Learner on Line :lol: )

 

 

I remember years ago having been the only one to kantei a sword posted by Darcy and this just from Bob Cole's website which is fabulous (a bit too lyric from time to time for my English)

 

So the best way to learn is to ask questions about a specific identified sword.

 

With poor pictures and no references on a smith it is useless to ask if the mei is shoshin or soshin We can only say if the reading is correct.

 

You will have much more fun proceeding like this and you'll make tremendous progress

 

I am very lazy so when I tackle a task I want to do it with the minimum of effort and the maximum yield.

 

Wow, Uncle Jean has spoken

[Lee Bray]

Wow, Uncle Jean has spoken

 

Wisely.

 

Do you take your news from varied and reputable sources or do you read the Daily Mail?

[jason_mazzy]

Jason,

We know the sword you show us is Nihonto. We know it is signed Kuniyuki, it may be genuine but no one here can say "yes" or "no".

 

Why? because with have no reference in our books of a smith signing this way.

 

You are going to learn something today : a mei on sword finishes by the smith name (followed sometimes or often depending on the period by the kanji "saku" or "saku kore" (made by).

 

What does it mean : it means that if anything was added to this mei, it would be above the smith name. Though the sword is cut (suriage) (were it cut above the mei, it would have been O suriage - the mei having been cut away) - you have it in full.

 

Not all of the smiths' mei are listed and it is difficult to have all the books treating the subject (there are plenty : Fujishiro Nihonto Jiten, Nihonto Taikan, Nihonto Zuikan, Mino To Taikan ...) - Only Japanese experts could perhaps say if the mei is genuine and if not give a paper stating that further inquiries are needed and that they can't make up their mind - I saw it for a katana signed Kanyoshi dtd end of Nambokucho, beginning Muromachi.

 

To try to learn kanji, here is a site with fantastic pictures of Swords and mei :

 

http://www.aoi-art.com/

 

In browsing everyday you can easily learn the basic Kanji - you also have the very usefull Kanji pages from our friend Ted (you'll find the links on NMB site)

 

I shall prefer that new posts were done in the Nihonto section - Taking a sword for example from Aoi Art and discuss its merit. You will learn a lot and you could even become a very goo LoL (Learner on Line :lol: )

 

 

I remember years ago having been the only one to kantei a sword posted by Darcy and this just from Bob Cole's website which is fabulous (a bit too lyric from time to time for my English)

 

So the best way to learn is to ask questions about a specific identified sword.

 

With poor pictures and no references on a smith it is useless to ask if the mei is shoshin or soshin We can only say if the reading is correct.

 

You will have much more fun proceeding like this and you'll make tremendous progress

 

I am very lazy so when I tackle a task I want to do it with the minimum of effort and the maximum yield.

 

Wow, Uncle Jean has spoken

 

Thank you. This is a very informative post. I appreciate the help and am doing my best.

[Jean]

Jason,

 

You have my e-mail, if you want to discuss a blade, feel free

[Jean]

Lee,

 

I am very selective in my readings, mostly detective novels, thrillers No kidding I must have outpassed easily thousand.

 

From time to time, I indulge myself in philisophy, fly fishing, guns and finance of course

 

PS : I had forgotten Nihonto as a side reading.

 

I seldom read newspaper but listen to radio or music - classical is very soothing

[Jamie]

Jason,

I too am a beginner so I am not sure if I should comment here or not. But I would suggest looking at sales at High end sites. And as many Nihonto as you can. Go to a show. It's invaluable.

Darcy's site Is VERY informative and has some VERY high end stuff to study. He has Many ranked and papered blades(along with descriptions that tel about the lines each smith was a part of). And many other do as well. I think you and I both will learn a LOT more from looking at verified blades. I'd be more than happy to share sites via PM(not sure it's OK to post them publicly)

And as for Buying, there is only one seller on ebay I would purchase from(he was referred by someone I know- A Polisher). There are good sales here, that are reasonable. And the folks seem very easy to deal with.

 

Jamie